An Almost Complete Tank Wipeout

[lizjamie]

I know I already started a thread on this earlier, but I am now pretty desperate, and would love even some kind of explanation!

1 58litre tank, set up for about 4 months. Began with 6 lemon tetras and 4 rednose tetras, but was down to 3 of each due to losses. My first tropical tank(only had goldfish before). Has a fluval 2 filter and a small rubbish rena filstar thing that came with the tank so adequate filtration. Usually do a 25% water change once a week.

Last sunday I got 3 new rednose tetras and 2 new plants. Water checked religiously (no ammonia or nitrite spikes showed up), and I did an extra water change midweek to make sure.

Wednesday 3 new rednose tetras go very dark in colour, and start hiding in plants, then start breathing incredibly fast, then get curved spines (and possibly sticking out scales but is hard to see) and then they are all dead. Do not water change as concerned that this sickness took off pretty soon after.

Then another 2 of the older rednose tetras dont turn dark, but do the same thing.

Do a big cleanout/water change. Start dosing with pima and melafix incase of some infection and didn't reckon the medication would be too harsh with it all being natural.

Then the last rednose died this morning.

Now one of my lemons is going the same way.

#### is going on?

- The next fish doesnt start looking sick until the one before is dead. I could see this happening if some toxin got in the water that doesnt show up on the stats but you'd think they'd all go at once, this one by one thing is very weird.
- There seems nothing to be done to stop it - they don't have any marks on them when dead.
- Doesn't seem to be related to water changing so not soem kind of shock, it seems they die whether I change the water or not.
- NO ammonia or nitrite has shown up at any point.

Is there any one out there who knows what I should do or what I have done wrong (be as brutal as you like).

 

[Jazzzz]

poor you i don't know

 

[scooterchick]

Mmmm curved spines is always a dangerous sign. It's possible your tank is infected with fish tuverculosis, very deadly and incurable, however on the plus side it's usually only contagious when fish feed on a dead fish and otherwise healthy fish can live for a long time with the condition. You'll have to quarantine the tank til you know for sure, no fish in, no fish out, keep up with the maintenance and hopefully your other fish will be ok. The other possibility is internal parasites which there is no harm in treating for and see if makes a difference.

 

[WILDER]

I would take a look here to see what you think.
http/www.fishyportal.com/cgi-bin/pub/dia...&did=232361

 

[lizjamie]

It does look depressingly like it now I read about it.

All 3 lemons are now looking sick.

There are hardly any red bits on them, occassionally a little hint but where the flappy side fins attach so I just thought it was normal. On a close look on there are a few white bumps on one of them, some of the dead ones had slightly frayed fins, the sickest has a slightly poppy eye. Although this seems to have progressed much faster than the article suggested - new fish last sunday, first deaths wednesday, almost all gone today, only a week later.

Coincidence that they have all died one by one or has muching on teh dead ones sped it along? Some got a little eat as they died whilst I was at work.

So how did arrive? In the new rednoses presumably? Although i did not boil my new plants as it seems to suggest here......

I suppose there is not much to do but hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Thanks everyone.

 

[WILDER]

Sounds like you have a bad bacterial infection in your tank.
Red patches on fish is septicemia.
You need to start treating the whole tank fast.

[URL="http/www.petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/afm/G29060.htm"]http/www.petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/afm/G29060.htm[/URL]

 

[lizjamie]

Thanks,

I'm in the UK. Thing is all 3 are already doing the megafast breathing and slightly twitching thing, if all the others were a sign I will ahve an empty tank by morning.

It is just happening so fast. One lemon, fine through all the other fish dying, now has both poppy eyes within the space of a few hours.

The 3 initial deaths had obviously bent spines but the deaths have got less viscious as this has gone on.

So you don't think it is fish TB then? A bacteria infection from the new ones, combined with the stress of new people in a tank has got them? It is just the fine then dead part that gets me with this, is a bacteria infection passed from fish to fish the way people get colds from sneezing?

 

[WILDER]

Bent spines can be old age, fish tb, internal parasites.
I wouldn't rule out internal parasites with livebearers if there wild caught.
Signs of internal parasites are long stringy white poo, clear mucas poo, red worms prutruding from the anus.
Being skinny or really bloated.
Bent spines.
Enlarged anus to red inflamed anus.

Hard to say fish tb without test done on a dead fish.
Once spine bends there nothing to be done.
All you can do is add antibiotics to the tank if you suspect its fish tb.
The anitbiotic will wipe the benefical bacteria out in the filter but it want wiping out if its fish tb.
Also keep all equipment steralised to stop spreading in to other tanks.

Wear gloves if you have cuts on your hands.
Fish tb is rare for human to catch you have to be exposed to it along time.
Weak immune system.

 

[WILDER]

[URL="http/www.flippersandfins.net/pop-eye.htm"]http/www.flippersandfins.net/pop-eye.htm[/URL]

Taken from the link.

The bacterial causes may manifest themselves as septicemia from such organisms as Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Edwardsiella, all gram-negative rod bacteria. To diagnose septicemia, you should look for red blotches or red streaks on the body and fins. Bloody splotches at the base of the pectoral fins are often the first indication of septicemia. It is when the bacterial infection attacks the internal organs that the eyes begin to collect fluid. If your fish is still eating, treat by feeding antibiotic food. The most effective medicated food is Medi-Gold, which contains three antibiotics, including kanamycin. Romet B and Tetra medicated food for bacterial infections are alternatives to use, but the Tetra brand food may be less effective due to bacterial resistance that has developed to its’ antibiotic, tetracycline. If your fish has stopped eating or seems to be quite sick even with medicated food, then he should be treated with antibiotics in the water. The antibiotics kanamycin (Kanacyn) and minocycline (Maracyn-Two) have gram-negative rod bacterial coverage and can be used to treat septicemia.

Other bacterial causes of pop-eye are from Mycobacteria (fish TB) and Nocardia. Fish infected with these bacteria tend to waste away and may have open ulcers on their bodies. Few studies have been performed to determine which antibiotic is best to treat fish TB. There has been some reported success with minocycline (Maracyn-Two) and kanamycin (Kanacyn). Interestingly, minocycline successfully treats Mycobacterium marinum (fish TB) in humans!

 

[emilythestrange]

This Soudns really sad,
I had some sort of bacterial infection on my goldfish.... it was fin rot. I saw one fish dead, and its sad when u see another sucking on its side, and sure enough within hours the next one caught the symptons, then died,...
I got a tank wipeout of all 5 fish within 5 days.
Now ive sterilised everything and im doing a proper fishless cycle!

xx

 

[WILDER]

I see you are in the united kingdom.
Antibiotics are only availabe through a vet, you could ring a local vet and see if he can offer any advice.
Havent had tb in my tanks but one tank got wiped out through ntd so I do know how you feel.
Have all the fish died now then.

 

[madpiano]

I wish I had found this thread 2 years ago. I lost one Guppy after another, just like you have with your Tetras. And I had exactly the symptoms given in the link for fish TB on them. We could never work it out. They had a swollen belly, but the females never had babies. The scales did stick out, but not like in dropsy, just a little bit. The main thing we were always confused about were those lesions and the fluid under the skin. We didn't get pop eye, but some had clouded eyes and we definitley saw the black spots - we actually treated for flukes because of that. The fish also seemed to be coughing and having inflamed gills, but not all of them did.

We never lost all of the fish in there and the rest of them lived happy until I had to give up the hobby for the last year (just starting again). But any new additions were hit and miss. Some died some didn't.

I hope I never see that horrible disease again in my life !

 

[lizjamie]

By some miracle, the 3 lemons have recovered somewhat, and the pop eye has gone down in the one that had it! They are swimming round and rushed up to eat this morning so obviously not too sick at all.

I have started treating with melafix, pimafix, and myzaxin(had it and it said bacteria pop eye and what not).

Am keeping my fingers crossed that I can hold onto them.

 

[WILDER]

Melafix is only good on cuts and wounds.
Glad there some improvement but there not out of the woods yet.
Would of been better adding anti internal bacteria med by interpet, but it dosn't treat fish tb.

Take from another poster.

coughing and having inflamed gills, but not all of them did.

Are you sure it wasnt gill flukes, as they can cough and have red inflamed gills with gill flukes, plus they can lose weight.
But gill flukes don't cause bent spines I think.

 

[lizjamie]

Well nobody has lost any weight, tbh I think it has all gone a bit too fast for that.

I do have a bottle of interpret no 9 for anti internal bacteria, use as well as or instead of mzyxin? I am a bit worried that one of them (the one that got the popeye for a little while) may have a slight hint of columnaris coming up so I would obviously like to make sure that goes.

Early on bent spine and redish gills but not since the first 3 deaths. I dont konw what fish coughing looks like, the sick ones breathe incredibly fast, and lose balance and dart around in uncontrolled manner, later just lie on teh ground breathing incredibly fast, but I wouldnt have said coughing it looked like coughing, or at least not in the human sense anyways....