ammonia question

[ftbetta]

What kind of ammonia do I get and how do I know if its pure and where do I find it?

I got kroger brand home sense ammonia, and was trying to use the ammonia calculator to try and find the percentage/strength of ammonia, and it didn't say it on the bottle, so I did a general google search and it says if you shake the bottle and there are bubbles don't use it, its not pure... mine bubbles.

I already had to look at a few places to find a bottle of what I thought was plain ammonia, and there wasn't another option. Where on earth do I get this and how do I find the strength or it.

[edit] hmm, so I found the other thread about the walmart ammonia, is there anywhere else in the US besides Walmart, even if I have to pay more? the photo on the thread would load for me. On the bottle of the one from walmart does it say what strength it is to put into the calculator?

 

[LyraGuppi]

I've heard ACE Hardware carries ammonia (I think that's where I bought mine), and you can buy pure ammonia online. I bought Austin's Clear Ammonia, in the one gallon bottle.
You'll know if it's pure by shaking it, like you did. If it doesn't bubble or foam (if it acts like water), it's safe to use.
I haven't seen Walmart's ammonia, so I wouldn't know.

 

[StevenF]

Many stores including ACE buy there ammonia from a manufacture. The manufacture just adds the ACE label to their generic product. Now if ACE specifies pure ammonia thats what you should get. However many stores don't specify this or many specify ammonia with surfactants (soap). Surfactants are lethal to all aquatic animals. And when you do find pure ammonia the bottles never have the concentration listed.

The only way to know if you have contaminated ammonia is to shack the bottle vigorously. If foam forms on top its contaminated. If it is not clear it has dyes and again is contaminated. It is getting increasingly hard to find safe ammonia to use.

one alternative is from Dr Tims aquatics. It's a small bottle of ammonia chloride it's been on th market for some time and appears to work.
http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Ammonium-Chloride-Solution-for-Fishless-Cycling_p_190.html

Another option is to go to chemical supply companies and look for calibration solutions.
http://hannainst.com/hi4001-03-ammonia-standard-1000-mg-l-ppm-500-ml.html
It's not cheap but it is a pure ammonia solution.

 

[ftbetta]

thanks guys! there is an ACE hardware near us, I will check them out (and I need grass seed anyhow, so that will be perfect)

if it says pure ammonia, when I use the ammonia calculator that there is a link to, somewhere on this site, I would put 100%, yeah?

another ammonia / tank cycling question - I am interested in trying some live plants this time around as well. Is it safe to start plants while I'm cycling the tank? or does the changing ammonia and nitrate and everything levels bother the plants as well?

 

[Essjay]

if it says pure ammonia, when I use the ammonia calculator that there is a link to, somewhere on this site, I would put 100%, yeah?

No, not 100%. Ammonia is a gas which is dissolved in water in the bottle. Strictly speaking, it is then ammonium hydroxide, which is what some brands list in the ingredients. Only the gas is 100% pure ammonia
Most household ammonias are round the 9.5% level; I have seen some super concentrated ammonia on Ebay and Amazon for fishless cycling but the kind from hardware stores is usually around 9.5%. This is why the default % in the calculator is 9.5%.
If in doubt, add half of what the calculator says for 3 ppm, wait half an hour for it to mix then test it. It should be 1.5 ppm so just add the rest of the ammonia amount given by the calculator.

 

[ftbetta]

Alright! got the ACE brand ammonia, it says right on the bottle "contains 10% ammonium hydroxide" and when I shake it up, no bubbles!!!

Let the cycling commense!

Does anyone know about if it is safe to add plants?

 

[Ch4rlie]

Indeed, essjay nailed it there. Most ammonia sold in bottles for household cleaning is ammonium hyrdoxide, basiclly just ammonia and water, usually at around 9.5% being ammonia strength.

Ther are a few places wher you can purchase amonia, a few hardware stores sell ammonia as household cleaning prdoduct. Usually "Kleen Off". This does work for fishless cycling.

Though much easier, and sometimes cheaper just to purchase this online, though there are more prducts of course, just need to find a bottle that has just ammonium hyrdroxide, no other ingredients at all whatsoever some products are stronger in ammonia percentage than others but as long as it calculated in the calculator then should pose no problem at all.

Might be also useful is to look for syringes or droppers as an aid to help putting in accurate ammonia dosages.

As for the bubbles when shaking the bottle, well, from what I've learned over the years and personally is that if you shake the bottle and not much bubbles form and quickly dissipate then generally its ok to use, but if lots of bubbles and slow to dissiapate then best not to try that.

 

[ftbetta]

hrmm... So I wanted to test the water just to see where I was starting. It said Ammonia - 0, Nitrate 15ppm, Nitrite either 0 or 0.5 depending on how one might read it.

I purchased a new tank, used fresh water out of the sink (dechlorinated), put in new playsand, rinsed and cleaned with hose water. I did use my old filter and heater, which I had rinsed and scrubbed the parts I could reach, but didn't use any cleaners on it.

Does tap water already have nitrates in it? Where does that put me with cycling?

[edit] the heater and filter also sat on my counter completely dry for several weeks in between tanks, I kind of assumed that none of the bacteria would live that long out of water... but I know that I know very little

 

[Essjay]

It is common for tap water to have nitrate in it. Test some freshly run tap water to find out how much yours has.

Nitrate in tap water won't affect cycling, you just have to remember to subtract the amount in your tap water from the tank nitrate reading to see if there is any being made by the filter.

 

[ftbetta]

so, is it OK to add plants to a tank while it is cycling? or will it kill the plants?

 

[DutchMuch]

No it will let your plants thrive really, a heavily planted tank is best for when just setting up.

 

[Baker]

Most people recommend staying between 10-20 ppm nitrate for a planted tank, this is because the nitrates feed the plants without becoming so concentrated that it is harmful to the fish. Generally, once you hit 40 ppm, you know you need to water change out before nitrates become toxic. (There's some debate between whether nitrates become too concentrated between 20-40 ppm but I would say if you aren't too experienced just try to keep your water at 10-20 ppm. This will take some time to learn how to balance, you'll need to monitor the nitrates before and after your water changes until you know what percentage of water change and how often it needs to be done.
The benefit of having 15 ppm nitrates in your tap water is that your plants are unlikely to hit a nitrogen deficiency, which is obviously an important macronutrients for plants. I recommend researching stem plants and going with those for your first tank rather than root feeding plants because they are easier to care for. Considering that nitrogen will not be an issue for you, you might like to invest some money in seachem flourish, it's a comprehensive fertilizer blend that is lower in nitrogen than other liquid frets and higher in micronutrients. If you do end up buying a couple root feeding plants you might also purchase root tabs. (Once again seachems brand will be lower in macronutrients than something like API root tabs but higher in micronutrients)