Ammonia Issues

[FishBlast]

Um, yes, I do have a filter in both tanks. It would be ludicrous to not have filters. It would also cause many fishy deaths and this would severely upset me. I do not let my fish be in ANY kind of discomfort.

There are plenty of people on here who do not have filters, and since I cannot see one in either photo, it makes sense to ask as opposed to assume, as it would have been in this case, incorrectly.

Perhaps you could not tell from the picture, but my 10 gallon tank is a sand substrate!

Sorry, it looked like fine blue gravel from the photo. Which brand is it? Is it very fine and "soft" when you run your hands through it?

I guess I have to say then that corys will be out as I can not simply "change" the pH of this area. I feel it is more important for the fish to have a stable pH than to have one that is being altered chemically to be lower and risk it raising from unforeseen causes.

You are right that it is by far better to have a stable pH than a "correct" (but fluctuating) one, which is why I always advise against buffers. You might be able to lower it "naturally" in the long term by adding bogwood (which will release tanic acid) and adding plants… the problem with doing this is that it would mean that you would be unable to do one off, large water changes with tap water even in an emergency as the change in GH and KH would harm the fish. On the other hand, small water changes will not harm fish and in an emergency, it is relatively safe to do *lots* of small water changes at intervals instead of one large one, in other words, by acclimatising the fish to tap water over a period of a day or longer.

Again, I did research the cory cats BEFORE I bought them and somehow must have missed the hardness part. However, I did switch over to sand substrate and bought a breed that only grew to 2 inches, as I have already stated.

Then why did you buy two which grew to 2 inches? There aren't many people on here who would recommend starting with only two and such large ones in a small tank, or would not have pointed out the difference in their ideal and your tank water.
Regardless, I do recommend that you pay attention to water parameters when doing research as some species are very sensitive to them (especially harder water species going into softer water). Another point you might want to consider is how active a species is because some (like most Corys, some species of danio, etc.) may require quite a bit of space for their size, while other species which are not as active (like some plecos, some cats, etc.) are fine in smaller tanks: this is why I say that a 2" pleco is fine for a 24*12*12 inch tank, but a 2" Cory is not.

Perhaps you are not readighng through all of the posts or you would have discovered this earlier.

This is the first time you've mentioned most of these things, or clarified those which you did not make clear before. In fact, I am asking more questions *because* I am reading over what you have written and the latest one which comes to mind is "do you realise that some Corys grow to 1" and some to 3.5"?" Because from what you are saying, it sounds like you think that they all grow to 2" and C. julii (which is the Cory in the photo that you posted) do grow to over 2".
FishBlast, you should probably research Corys some more too, because bronze Corys (C. aeneus) grow to 3" and most definitely will (literally, in the proper sense of the word) try climbing out of the average 60 litre tank for lack of space!

So, unless you can contribute to this post in a better tone, I would ask that you please stay off of it and anything I may post in the future.

What exactly do you not like about my tone? No offence, but I am *not* going to say something along the lines of "yay, Corys!" every other sentence as it takes me long enough as it is to sift out the information from the posts.

Again I will list my results as I have just tested my water:

As far as I can see, this is the first time that you have posted the KH and GH results, and the rest of them are not really relevant to anything that I have said, but thank you for the reminder anyway.

GH - 150
KH - 120

Which is approximately 8.4 dGH and 6.7 dKH: these readings indicate that your water is relatively hard (as the pH implied) and should remain relatively stable (i.e. should not change much in the long term or short term). It is good water for most neutral to hard water fish. Once you are able to measure the bottom area of the tank, I will be able to suggest a few species which fit with your water parameters and tank size. Are you willing to add at least a small piece of bogwood? (Because some species of fish require bogwood as part of their diet.)

I'm planning on building a 100L tank, though I might get restricted to 64L. But starting to lose hope, as I have yet to get paid, and even if I do, convincing my mother will probably be another obstacle.
What about dwarf hoplos? Can they be kept as one or a pair in 64 or 100L?

 

[AshP1986]

Um, yes, I do have a filter in both tanks. It would be ludicrous to not have filters. It would also cause many fishy deaths and this would severely upset me. I do not let my fish be in ANY kind of discomfort.

There are plenty of people on here who do not have filters, and since I cannot see one in either photo, it makes sense to ask as opposed to assume, as it would have been in this case, incorrectly.

Perhaps you could not tell from the picture, but my 10 gallon tank is a sand substrate!

Sorry, it looked like fine blue gravel from the photo. Which brand is it? Is it very fine and "soft" when you run your hands through it?

I guess I have to say then that corys will be out as I can not simply "change" the pH of this area. I feel it is more important for the fish to have a stable pH than to have one that is being altered chemically to be lower and risk it raising from unforeseen causes.

You are right that it is by far better to have a stable pH than a "correct" (but fluctuating) one, which is why I always advise against buffers. You might be able to lower it "naturally" in the long term by adding bogwood (which will release tanic acid) and adding plants… the problem with doing this is that it would mean that you would be unable to do one off, large water changes with tap water even in an emergency as the change in GH and KH would harm the fish. On the other hand, small water changes will not harm fish and in an emergency, it is relatively safe to do *lots* of small water changes at intervals instead of one large one, in other words, by acclimatising the fish to tap water over a period of a day or longer.

Again, I did research the cory cats BEFORE I bought them and somehow must have missed the hardness part. However, I did switch over to sand substrate and bought a breed that only grew to 2 inches, as I have already stated.

Then why did you buy two which grew to 2 inches? There aren't many people on here who would recommend starting with only two and such large ones in a small tank, or would not have pointed out the difference in their ideal and your tank water.
Regardless, I do recommend that you pay attention to water parameters when doing research as some species are very sensitive to them (especially harder water species going into softer water). Another point you might want to consider is how active a species is because some (like most Corys, some species of danio, etc.) may require quite a bit of space for their size, while other species which are not as active (like some plecos, some cats, etc.) are fine in smaller tanks: this is why I say that a 2" pleco is fine for a 24*12*12 inch tank, but a 2" Cory is not.

Perhaps you are not readighng through all of the posts or you would have discovered this earlier.

This is the first time you've mentioned most of these things, or clarified those which you did not make clear before. In fact, I am asking more questions *because* I am reading over what you have written and the latest one which comes to mind is "do you realise that some Corys grow to 1" and some to 3.5"?" Because from what you are saying, it sounds like you think that they all grow to 2" and C. julii (which is the Cory in the photo that you posted) do grow to over 2".
FishBlast, you should probably research Corys some more too, because bronze Corys (C. aeneus) grow to 3" and most definitely will (literally, in the proper sense of the word) try climbing out of the average 60 litre tank for lack of space!

So, unless you can contribute to this post in a better tone, I would ask that you please stay off of it and anything I may post in the future.

What exactly do you not like about my tone? No offence, but I am *not* going to say something along the lines of "yay, Corys!" every other sentence as it takes me long enough as it is to sift out the information from the posts.

Again I will list my results as I have just tested my water:

As far as I can see, this is the first time that you have posted the KH and GH results, and the rest of them are not really relevant to anything that I have said, but thank you for the reminder anyway.

GH - 150
KH - 120

Which is approximately 8.4 dGH and 6.7 dKH: these readings indicate that your water is relatively hard (as the pH implied) and should remain relatively stable (i.e. should not change much in the long term or short term). It is good water for most neutral to hard water fish. Once you are able to measure the bottom area of the tank, I will be able to suggest a few species which fit with your water parameters and tank size. Are you willing to add at least a small piece of bogwood? (Because some species of fish require bogwood as part of their diet.)

The only reason I bought 2 was because they only had 2 at the store. Oh and also because the lfs recommend them. I think they were unwell too which is most upsetting because I do NOT want to see anything suffer. I returned the deceased fish and they gave me my money back. I told them there was no way I could take fish that night since I wouldn't be back at the school for over 48 hours. The tag I read at the store said they grow to 2 inches. Which, I thought, was a small fish... am I wrong? I am definitely not opposed to bog wood... as long as I can find some and as long as it will not harm my guppies and their fry(I remove the fry as soon as I can with a turkey baster. Usually I leave mom in the big tank to drop her fry to stress her as little as possible.)

12 inches high, 10 inches wide and 20 inches long. I did not purchase this tank. I "borrowed" it from the science room(they used to have goldfish).

 

[KittyKat]

The only reason I bought 2 was because they only had 2 at the store. Oh and also because the lfs recommend them. I think they were unwell too which is most upsetting because I do NOT want to see anything suffer. I returned the deceased fish and they gave me my money back. I told them there was no way I could take fish that night since I wouldn't be back at the school for over 48 hours.

If there are not enough at the store to make up a school, I would wait until there were either enough (with the next delivery) or not get them at all (if they were not usually in stock, as it would be difficult to get the rest later).
I would also double check anything that the LFS tells me, if they suggested that I get medium sized Corys for a small tank.
Do you know how to do "buying" checks on fish at the LFS? If not, worth reading up on this!
You are right that it's best to not get fish if you can't watch them settle in..

The tag I read at the store said they grow to 2 inches. Which, I thought, was a small fish... am I wrong?

Yes and no: this is quite a complicated subject due to variations if behaviour.
For example, a 2" Danio rerio can clear a 4-6 ft tank in under a second, but a 2" fancy-tailed Betta splendens would take the best part of a minute to do the same. The two fish are the same length, but does the Betta really appreciate the same 4-6 ft for movement that the Danio does? No. And a Danio can be harmed in a tank which is small enough to take a Betta.
Another example: a 5" male Labidochromis caeruleus defends a territory which is approximately 12*12 inches in size while in a different tank a 5" Cleithracara maronii is defending a 24*24 inch area. Because the lab defends half the territory that the ram does, should the lab be given half the tank space? No, because both fish need the same amount of space to be active in, so that they both can develop muscle and get a decent amount of exercise.
If you want a guideline which can vaguely be applied to an absolute scale, then I would say that a 1" fish is small, a 2" fish is medium, and a 3"+ fish is large. In the same "guideline", I would say that a 2 ft tank is small, a 3 ft tank is medium and a 4 ft+ tank is large. Using this, I would say that a 1" Cory/tetra/cichlid would work in a 2 ft tank, a 2" Cory/tetra/cichlid would work in a 3 ft tank and 3" Cory/tetra/cichlid would work in a 4 ft tank.. but as I say, this is a very rough guideline because, for example, I would also say that a 10" pleco would work in a 4 ft tank but only a 3-4" loach would.
Another very rought guideline is that streamlined fish (torpero-shaped tetras, rasboras, etc.) need more space than "plate shaped" and fancy-tailed fish (black skirt tetras, Bettas, etc.)
Basically, the only way to be able to guess is to have more experience with a wider variety of fish or to ask advice until you have that.

I am definitely not opposed to bog wood... as long as I can find some and as long as it will not harm my guppies and their fry(I remove the fry as soon as I can with a turkey baster. Usually I leave mom in the big tank to drop her fry to stress her as little as possible.)

A small piece should not harm hard water fish by affecting the water parameters, just to be safe, it may be better to go for a second hand piece.

12 inches high, 10 inches wide and 20 inches long. I did not purchase this tank. I "borrowed" it from the science room(they used to have goldfish).

Well, you're definitely doing much better than the science room. 10*20 inches is quite small, unfortunately, but there are still a few options.
In terms of size, 8-10 Corydoras hastatus (maxes out at 1.3", has been collected in pH 7.6) is the most compatible, but in terms of water, the best option is 6 Corydoras lamberti (maxes out at 1.5" and has been collected in pH 8.0).. I would not go for a C. lamberti myself, but a medium piece of bogwood and some live plants would probably soften the water up enough for C. hastatus as what the fish have been found in are not strict "can survive/cannot survive" divisions, but more of what the fish would do best in. It is normally relatively safe to keep softer water fish in harder water, but do not expect them to breed successfully.
I would consider one Parotocinclus jumbo (putbull pleco), although personally, I would prefer to see a larger tank and have a pair in it.
If you want something more interesting, then maybe Hara jerdoni, but again, they would benefit from softer water.
I consider shrimp and snails to still be the best option though…

 

[AshP1986]

Why would you not go for c. lamberti?
What kind of shrimp and snails?
My guppies tend to breed more in water with a small amount of aquarium salt (ie barely registers on salinity test), however, I am not opposed to removing all salt from the tank.

I agree that the parotocinclus jumbo would do better in a larger tank so I will not be getting him I would want to have more than just 1 which is not possible due to his size.

On a side note... I almost lost the first guppy I bought for my tank; her mates got sucked up into the filter(I was missing the grate cover) so she was alone in the 10 gallon tank for a couple weeks until I noticed her acting very odd. I did a water change in case it was ammonia, and then went out and bought 2 males and 4 females. She has been the happiest fish since I brought home new friends. The lfs guy said that guppies weren't schooling fish. I was like I'm pretty sure they like tank mates, but okay.... yea... anyway crisis averted...

Unfortunately one male passed away last night and I have no clue why. There is absolutely nothing amiss with the tank. Hence the water check. There was not a single mark on him... I just don't know. If I do buy some corydoras/something else you might recommend, they will be going into a quarantine tank in the science room for a couple weeks. Hmmm good thing the science teacher is a bff as I have neglected to mention this to her. (I know she won't care as long as I am the one taking care of them). Luckily she has sinks in her room that will allow me to change water and what not while they are settling in.

I know some fish keepers dose their new purchases with some kind of meds in a quarantine tank before placing them in an established tank. Kitty, how do you feel about this? What should I use if you do recommend it?

I really do not want to lose another fish as it will totally crush me.

Also, if you have any other recommendations for my tank at all I am totally open to hearing it. Even if it is to not add any more fish. I was thinking some different species might help round out my tank and make everyone happier, but if this is not the case then I will let things be as they are.

fyi I am sorry about earlier, I do believe I read your message in the wrong tone... grrr text can sometimes let that happen. I appreciate your advice very much!



ps The sand is Freshwater aquarium sand it is not fine like sandbox sand... but more of a gravely type sand... Like I took a bad of gravel and went at it with a sledge hammer for awhile ... perhaps I should buy a different substrate?

 

[KittyKat]

Why would you not go for c. lamberti?

Because they are that bit larger. Think of Corys as Danios from my example, and plecos as Bettas.. Corys are quite active and will often swim up and down against the glass in smaller tanks. I happily consider the 6 smallest species of Cory for a tank with the bottom area of 24*12 inches, but 20*10 inches is 30% smaller, which is why I'm not quite as positive about Corys in general.

What kind of shrimp and snails?

Pretty much any apart from apple snails because apple snails release a lot of ammonia when they die, enough to kill everything in a 10 gallon tank. Look at cherry shrimp (various colour morphs), amano shrimp, any freshwater nerite snails… I'd probably avoid bamboo shrimp as they can be tricky to feed and the guppies may pick on them… well, guppies would eat any baby cherry shrimp anyway, but the adults should be relatively safe.

My guppies tend to breed more in water with a small amount of aquarium salt (ie barely registers on salinity test), however, I am not opposed to removing all salt from the tank.

The others would benefit from no salt..

[…] I would want to have more than just 1 which is not possible due to his size tank size.

[…] The lfs guy said that guppies weren't schooling fish. I was like I'm pretty sure they like tank mates, but okay.... yea... anyway crisis averted... […]

He was right in that they are not a schooling or shoaling species, but they are a social species to the point where I recommend 5 as a minimum number because with 2-4, one is likely to pick on others.

Unfortunately one male passed away last night and I have no clue why.

You may have better luck if you buy your guppies from a hobbyist…

If I do buy some corydoras/something else you might recommend, they will be going into a quarantine tank in the science room for a couple weeks.

For quarantine to be effective, it needs to last for at least 4-6 weeks. If you quarantine for only two, you might even be encouraging something to come out by "stressing" the fish twice through moving and two is not really enough to be sure that you're clear of all things. You can, of course, reduce potential stress by drip acclimatising properly.

Luckily she has sinks in her room that will allow me to change water and what not while they are settling in.

Do you have a cycled filter for the quarantine tank? If not, you probably want to prepare one now as Corys would need it.

I know some fish keepers dose their new purchases with some kind of meds in a quarantine tank before placing them in an established tank. Kitty, how do you feel about this? What should I use if you do recommend it?

I advise against any treatment unless the fish has a disease because otherwise, you are encouraging the disease to become immune to the medication.

Also, if you have any other recommendations for my tank at all I am totally open to hearing it. Even if it is to not add any more fish. I was thinking some different species might help round out my tank and make everyone happier, but if this is not the case then I will let things be as they are.

Plants and natural decor. Plants because they help keep the water stable, natural decor mostly through personal preference.

ps The sand is Freshwater aquarium sand it is not fine like sandbox sand... but more of a gravely type sand... Like I took a bad of gravel and went at it with a sledge hammer for awhile ... perhaps I should buy a different substrate?

To be honest, that still looks more like gravel than sand… can you say approximately how big in diameter the grains are? Generally, sands are under 0.5 mm, and fine gravel around 1-2 mm. I usually use just generic play sand, but last time I got some sharp sand and plaster sand (will link you to a photo in a bit).