Ammonia For Cycling

[LionessN3cubs]

In the other thread I started, someone wondered if maybe I had a wrong kind of ammonia because Im now 15 days into cycling and still getting NO drop in ammonia..NONE.

My ammonia bottle lists softened water, chelating agents, and ammonia. I know the chelating agents are okay, but I went back through a couple of ammonia threads and never saw anything about softened water. I had assumed it was okay but maybe it isn't? someone know?

 

[holidayinn]

In the other thread I started, someone wondered if maybe I had a wrong kind of ammonia because Im now 15 days into cycling and still getting NO drop in ammonia..NONE.

My ammonia bottle lists softened water, chelating agents, and ammonia. I know the chelating agents are okay, but I went back through a couple of ammonia threads and never saw anything about softened water. I had assumed it was okay but maybe it isn't? someone know?

Household Ammonia is what i used and is available from Homebase, boots etc (if your uk)....if u shake ur bottle, does it foam at the top? if so, then wrong type of ammonia....im sure others will come along with better advice

your post suggests you have ammonia levels...are u sustaining/increasing them?

i do know that increasing filtration and heater temperature will quicken things

 

[LionessN3cubs]

In the other thread I started, someone wondered if maybe I had a wrong kind of ammonia because Im now 15 days into cycling and still getting NO drop in ammonia..NONE.

My ammonia bottle lists softened water, chelating agents, and ammonia. I know the chelating agents are okay, but I went back through a couple of ammonia threads and never saw anything about softened water. I had assumed it was okay but maybe it isn't? someone know?

Household Ammonia is what i used and is available from Homebase, boots etc (if your uk)....if u shake ur bottle, does it foam at the top? if so, then wrong type of ammonia....im sure others will come along with better advice

your post suggests you have ammonia levels...are u sustaining/increasing them?

i do know that increasing filtration and heater temperature will quicken things

it doesnt foam when I shake it.

I added a sponge filter which came from someone elses tank (ordered online). It should've had the bacteria I needed in it. So now I have 2 filters running and my temp is on 86. My ph is also fine at about 7.5. My ammonia level is between 1-2 and even that small amount wont process.
I just dont have a clue what else to try! This is just grrrrr

 

[holidayinn]

if i remember rightly you need to get ur ammonia upto 4-5 (i'm not sure of the amount e.g. ml)

i think you need to add a higher dosage of ammonia for it to process, depending on the size of tank, quantity of ammonia differs...what the ideal dosage for your tank is, i'm not sure

 

[Million]

Is there any danger in adding too much ammonia?

 

[holidayinn]

i dont see how too much ammonia can be harmful as long as it converts to nitrite, then nitrate and you dont have any fish in the tank!

but i think its best if a measured dosage was used, too much ammonia may mean longer to cycle ur tank or even upset the cycling process

a fully cycled tank should be able to convert ammonia into nitrite within a 12 hour period, the nitrite should then convert into nitrates and thats when you have a cycled tank

to prepare the tank for the fish, you need to do a massive water change to get rid of the nitrates

--i know there is a sticky round here sumwhere, which gives a very good step-by-step guide on cycling

 

[LionessN3cubs]

if i remember rightly you need to get ur ammonia upto 4-5 (i'm not sure of the amount e.g. ml)

i think you need to add a higher dosage of ammonia for it to process, depending on the size of tank, quantity of ammonia differs...what the ideal dosage for your tank is, i'm not sure

my ammonia was at 4 ppm until friday (saturday?) when I lowered it on advice from Tolak because of the activated sponge I added

 

[Miss Wiggle]

ammonia levels of 8ppm+ will inhibit bacteria growth so you shouldn't raise it too high.

lioness, sometimes you get it where a cycle just won't start, you can try to kick start it by doing a 90% water change.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

ammonia levels of 8ppm+ will inhibit bacteria growth so you shouldn't raise it too high.

lioness, sometimes you get it where a cycle just won't start, you can try to kick start it by doing a 90% water change.

I did that last week...right when I added the mature sponge filter. I THINK maybe (praying) I saw a SLIGHT difference this morning. Hubby swears that the vial was reading a definite 2.0 and now its between 1 and 2...we'll see by tonight I hope. I am SO frustrated with this!

 

[LionessN3cubs]

ammonia levels of 8ppm+ will inhibit bacteria growth so you shouldn't raise it too high.

lioness, sometimes you get it where a cycle just won't start, you can try to kick start it by doing a 90% water change.

I did that last week...right when I added the mature sponge filter. I THINK maybe (praying) I saw a SLIGHT difference this morning. Hubby swears that the vial was reading a definite 2.0 and now its between 1 and 2...we'll see by tonight I hope. I am SO frustrated with this! BTW I have light LIGHT green fuzzies growing on the bottom of my decorations...I would assume algae but I've never seen algaei this light green...is this okay or what?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

good luck, i hope hubby's right!

yea probably algae, there's about a zillion different sorts and the colours vary significantly. so i'm sure that's all it is

 

[backtotropical]

I can't think of any reason why softened water would affect your cycle. After all, it is a tiny amount which is added to the tank, and as soon as it mixes with your tank water it will take on the mineral content of your tank water, probably making it hard again, in most cases.

I really feel like sending you mature media myself, Lioness, but i'm a bit far away.

Stick with it. It'll come good, just you wait and see.

 

[waterdrop]

Is there any danger in adding too much ammonia?

Yes, million and holidayinn, RDDs article on fishless cycling is carefully crafted from information in dozens of earlier fishless cycling articles on the internet. I've gone through many of the others myself and his article is really quite good. The ammonia levels chosen are a result of information and trial and error over many years and are important.

As Miss Wiggle says, adding enough ammonia to put you up in the 7-8ppm range is a known problem and will slow your cycle. [The current leading explanation for this is as follows: When you simply add ammonia to water and remove chlorine, a wide range of bacterial species will develop. By selecting the conditions correctly, the correct species will be encouraged to outgrow the others. At about 8ppm there is another species that develops and also processes ammonia into nitrite. Sounds fine right? Unfortunately, when the conditions change, like the source ammonia level dropping below 6ppm, this alternate species dies and the these dead cells tend to further inhibit the good bacteria that we want to encourage. Explanations like this change from time to time because very little funded research is done in this area.]

In the beginning of fishless cycling, it doesn't really matter whether Lioness puts in 3ppm, 4ppm or 5ppm as long as she monitors it daily and doses some more when it tests at 2ppm or below. [Once the ammonia oxidizing bacteria grow numerous enough it is ideal to be dosing up to 4 or 5ppm to be sure a healthy-sized population is established, because once Nitrites start to spike to 5ppm and above, it is better to ease back on the ammonia, down to 2 or 3ppm, minimizing the flood of nitrites that are created (each 1ppm of ammonia gets processed into about 2.7ppm of nitrite, so there is a multiplying effect) which make it hard to see any little signs that the amount of nitrite are beginning to go down a little. Seeing nitrites go down a little tends to be a psychological help because the second species can take so much longer to grow.]

In short, Lioness has good numbers for all the parameters and is doing everything right. Her only trouble area is the patience part, and if her hubby is right, that may get a little easier this week!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

I can't think of any reason why softened water would affect your cycle. After all, it is a tiny amount which is added to the tank, and as soon as it mixes with your tank water it will take on the mineral content of your tank water, probably making it hard again, in most cases.

I really feel like sending you mature media myself, Lioness, but i'm a bit far away.

Stick with it. It'll come good, just you wait and see.

aww thanks for caring enough to even consider sending me mature media! I bought some online from a guy Tolak deals with on a regular basis and he assured me it would work but.....I dont think its going to. It's been 3 days. If even a quarter of the population on that big sponge filter had survived I'd have seen SOMETHING by now I think. I just dont know what to do. I've done several BIG water changes in hopes that would kickstart it or something. There's nothing left for me to do. We get my stepdaughter this coming friday and Im willing to wait that long for something (anything) to happen...if not Im going to rip the whole thing apart, wash it all except the filters well, and go buy fish.

 

[backtotropical]

I know you've probably seen it already, Lioness, but i'm going to do my best to change your mind about getting fish, as i believe it will only escalate your problem. See below my post in another recent thread.

Hi Lioness,

I would advise against abandoning the fishless cycle in favour of adding fish to cycle with, and here is why

If your ammonia from the bottle isn't processing, I can't see any reason why the ammonia produced by the fish would process either. As far as i can tell, the only thing adding fish would achieve, is making the cycle harder work for you, and much more stressful on the tank inhabitants.

If you add fish, you'll still have the problem that the ammonia isn't processing, you'll just have fish to contend with at the same time.

Adding fish isn't the answer. Finding out why the ammonia isn't dropping and rectifying the problem and then continuing the fishless cycle is a far better solution.

I realise you are getting impatient, as anyone would, but i urge you to re-consider about getting fish just now.

Cheers

BTT

Also, have you tried Bio-Spira? That might be the lifeline you need.

Cheers

BTT