Ammonia cesspool

[The Big Figfetti]

So I’m not sure what’s happening. But I’m positive that my ammonia is high due to plant die off.
Tank is 2 weeks old. Plants from the start and I’ve added plants along the way.
I’ve been between 0 and .25 with ammonia, daily, with daily water changes. But the last 2 days, I’ve noticed that a lot of the plants are dying off. I removed several Monty carlo and a few others that just were fading away. And during that process, I’ve been between .25 and .50.

Todays water change was the first time that I’ve seen little improvement after a water change. It was at .50 and then went down to .25. And that’s with a 50% water change.

Am I not changing enough water?
These are the plants still left in the tank. Some of them have soft leaves toward the bottom. Some are yellowing and dying off at the bottom.

I took a close up of the red stem one, and the tiny white sponge looking things that are growing on it. Not sure what those are.

I was able to decrease the amount of diatoms that have been bombarding my tank. I think it lessened when I stoped adding flourish to the tank. But now I wonder if the plants need flourish, since they aren’t doing well.

 

[Uberhoust]

The white things look like eggs, not fish eggs, in a mucus coating, they might be snail eggs but maybe could also be some sort of colonial protozoan. Difficult to tell from the photo. I cannot speak to the plants, but any rotting material will increase your ammonia.

If there are fish in the tank I would do a water change daily until you get the ammonia down below 0.25 ppm. If there are no fish in the tank you got to expect it will have some changes as the biological system establishes, ie cycling. Water plants often die back when placed in a new aquarium, but then bounce back. Knowing the tank parameters can help with deciding what to do, for example the ammonia is less toxic in acid water, also you don't mention Nitrite which is more toxic.

 

[The Big Figfetti]

The white things look like eggs, not fish eggs, in a mucus coating, they might be snail eggs but maybe could also be some sort of colonial protozoan. Difficult to tell from the photo. I cannot speak to the plants, but any rotting material will increase your ammonia.

If there are fish in the tank I would do a water change daily until you get the ammonia down below 0.25 ppm. If there are no fish in the tank you got to expect it will have some changes as the biological system establishes, ie cycling. Water plants often die back when placed in a new aquarium, but then bounce back. Knowing the tank parameters can help with deciding what to do, for example the ammonia is less toxic in acid water, also you don't mention Nitrite which is more toxic.

Using RO/DI water from a not so local LFS. But I've found a place that will remineralize the water for me when I fill up, so I'm going to be switching soon.

Todays readings, before water change:
Ammonia - 0.50
Iron - 0
Copper - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Hardness - 25
Free chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 80
Carbonate - 80
pH - 6.8

Interesting about the ‘eggs’. I don’t have anything other than 2 snails that I just added a couple days ago. Nothing else that would have laid eggs. Unless it was there before and I didn’t notice…
I wiped them off during last nights water change. I’ll continue to monitor.

 

[Byron]

First, test your tap water (if not already don) on its own for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. This allows you to know what you are starting with, and what to expect.

Second, plants need light and nutrients, and these have to be in balance. And every plant species varies in how much, depending upon the rate of growth for that species. Having so many different species can also cause other negatives but I needn't go into that now. What is needed is to assess the light/nutrients balance. Any data you can provide on the light, especially intensity and spectrum, will help. And, are you using any plant fertilizers or additives?

The GH and KH numbers presumably are in ppm or the equivalent mg/l. If yes, then you have soft water which if RO makes sense. As for remineralizing, this may or may not be needed depending upon the fish. And the plants, but plant additives can be easier than remineralizing. As soon as you start messing with any parameter (GH, KH or pH) you are interfering with the natural balance/relationship of these in the water.

 

[The Big Figfetti]

I’ve looked all over for the specs on the lighting. It must not be very good, because it’s not listed anywhere on the box or online. It was from Petco. It’s the Aqueon OptiBright LED lights for a 10 gallon, 20” tank. All I see is that it says low to moderate light.
It’s been on there for about a week now.

I was dosing, but I stopped due to another thread. Of course my LFS recommended I continue to dose and said that the plants need to at least have the flourish. But I haven’t added it in again just yet.

I will test my regular water, but I’m not using that because we have a softener system on it. Rather, I should test the ro water that I’m getting from the store.

I could use my drinking water that we have filters on, but that’s just a lot for the small pump to produce daily. I can test that one too! I’m just worried it will have salt too, but I think it’s being filtered out.

 

[seangee]

As @Byron says if you go for soft water fish you many not need re-mineralising. If you do decide to just buy a tub of the same stuff the shop uses.
2 of my tanks use straight RO. Another needs some, but not much hardness. I use Salty shrimp GH+ and one scoop per 20l gets me to 6dGH. For my shrimp tank I use salty shrimp GH+/KH+. One scoop per 10l gets met to 6dGH and 3 dKH. A tub lasts for ever. Brands may differ in the US but do use a one shot product. Companies like Seachem will have you believe you need multiple products and lots of testing, that's how they make their money.

 

[Byron]

Can you use the municipal water without it going through any filter, i.e., bypass the filter? If yes, what are the GH, KH and pH of this (the municipal water website should have this info)?

Re the light, yes, very helpful website [being tongue in cheek]. But one thing they do say is low to moderate light requiring plants, so that may tell us something. You have some plants that need much stronger lighting than some of the other plants, and you have some plants that need shade above them to avoid becoming mats of algae. So right off, this difficulty faces you. What I did over my 30 years was to try plants I liked, see what they did, tossed out those that dwindled and never bought more of them, and kept the ones that did well and acquired more of these if necessary.

The plants needing more intense light are those that appear to be having trouble, so I think we can assume these plants are never going to do well, and some may not even be able to remain alive. All stem plants are fast growers, which means more light intensity. Some fare better than others. Losing lower leaves is a common sign of the light issue because the light is not penetrating down for these leaves, and all plants will grow toward the light source and put their energy into growing. Some of them even have mobile nutrients, where the plant takes specific nutrients from the older leaves and moves them to the new growth. The plant's goal is to reproduce, and it knows it will be hindered if precious nutrients are being squandered.

If no fertilizers are being used, the plants will struggle even more. Always use a complete or comprehensive fertilizer as these are intended to supplement natural nutrients from the fish being fed. It sometimes takes some trial and error to find the right balance, but the light is always the starting point.

 

[The Big Figfetti]

Can you use the municipal water without it going through any filter, i.e., bypass the filter? If yes, what are the GH, KH and pH of this (the municipal water website should have this info)?

Re the light, yes, very helpful website [being tongue in cheek]. But one thing they do say is low to moderate light requiring plants, so that may tell us something. You have some plants that need much stronger lighting than some of the other plants, and you have some plants that need shade above them to avoid becoming mats of algae. So right off, this difficulty faces you. What I did over my 30 years was to try plants I liked, see what they did, tossed out those that dwindled and never bought more of them, and kept the ones that did well and acquired more of these if necessary.

The plants needing more intense light are those that appear to be having trouble, so I think we can assume these plants are never going to do well, and some may not even be able to remain alive. All stem plants are fast growers, which means more light intensity. Some fare better than others. Losing lower leaves is a common sign of the light issue because the light is not penetrating down for these leaves, and all plants will grow toward the light source and put their energy into growing. Some of them even have mobile nutrients, where the plant takes specific nutrients from the older leaves and moves them to the new growth. The plant's goal is to reproduce, and it knows it will be hindered if precious nutrients are being squandered.

If no fertilizers are being used, the plants will struggle even more. Always use a complete or comprehensive fertilizer as these are intended to supplement natural nutrients from the fish being fed. It sometimes takes some trial and error to find the right balance, but the light is always the starting point.

That is super informative for the lights. At this point, what’s another $30 to return these and get something like a twin star. What range of lumens or kelvins should I be shooting for, for the stems that I have? And is there a post about brands of lighting that you can refer to me to go read?

I can definitely start using fertilizers again. I got the three pack fundamentals from seachem of flourish, iron and excel. But from the other reply, I see that I could use other/better all in ones.

I tested the water available to me and this is what they show.

Water from my my filter tap drinking water:
Ammonia - 0
Iron - 0
Copper - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Hardness - 25
Free chlorine - 0
Alkalinity - 0
Carbonate - 80
pH - 6.2

Water from the outside (non filtered, what we use to water the grass):
Ammonia - 0
Iron - 0
Copper - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Hardness - 75
Free chlorine - 2
Alkalinity - 300
Carbonate - 120
pH - 7.8

 

[The Big Figfetti]

As @Byron says if you go for soft water fish you many not need re-mineralising. If you do decide to just buy a tub of the same stuff the shop uses.
2 of my tanks use straight RO. Another needs some, but not much hardness. I use Salty shrimp GH+ and one scoop per 20l gets me to 6dGH. For my shrimp tank I use salty shrimp GH+/KH+. One scoop per 10l gets met to 6dGH and 3 dKH. A tub lasts for ever. Brands may differ in the US but do use a one shot product. Companies like Seachem will have you believe you need multiple products and lots of testing, that's how they make their money.

Thank you! I saw someone in the US post about a brand called BeeShrimp. I haven’t looked into it further but I’m willing to go any route and help the tank!

 

[The Big Figfetti]

Because it’s already talked about in this thread, I also wanted to add that as I was doing my water change today, I noticed that those ‘white egg’ looking things MOVED. The water glazed over them as I added it back in through a hose and each one would ‘close up’ as it got sprayed with the flow. And it opened back up when I stopped pointing it their way.

I know more about saltwater sponges than freshwater. Any idea if this is going to be a nuisance? Are freshwater sponges a normal thing to come by?

 

[Byron]

The outside water might be useable. The GH is 75 which I will assume is in mg/l (= ppm) and not degrees (dH). This is very workable, equates to 4 dH, and this soft probably very soft water. Alkalinity at 300 also assuming ppm (mg/l) is high, around 16 dKH, so that will buffer the pH preventing fluctuations. Which means the pH at 7.8 is probably not going to lower.

What fish were you thinking of having?

 

[The Big Figfetti]

Yes, those measurements were ppm. I’m not sure on the math of it all, but I was using the outside water. I stopped because I assumed RO from the LFS was going to be better. I’ve noticed that I don’t have a diatom issue, now that I’ve stopped using it though.

As for fish. I impulse bought my koi betta. And I have 2 otos and 2 nerite snails. I’d love to keep some shrimp and possibly 3 more schooling fish. But not decided on what. Maybe celestial danios, or something else that will stay quite small.

 

[Byron]

Yes, those measurements were ppm. I’m not sure on the math of it all, but I was using the outside water. I stopped because I assumed RO from the LFS was going to be better. I’ve noticed that I don’t have a diatom issue, now that I’ve stopped using it though.

As for fish. I impulse bought my koi betta. And I have 2 otos and 2 nerite snails. I’d love to keep some shrimp and possibly 3 more schooling fish. But not decided on what. Maybe celestial danios, or something else that will stay quite small.

Firt, the betta is a major factor. If male, I would not consider any other fish. If female, I understand from the betta members this is also serious risk. Keep an eye on the otos, when they get up to the betta's territory he/she may not welcome them. But I most assuredly would not add more fish.

The outside water in my view is fine for the fish you now have. Save the expense of RO.

If you re-home the betta, there are other small fish options, depending upon the tank size. Earlier a 20-inch light was mentioned, so presumably that is the length of the tank (?) and if so, this is small space. Celestial Pearl Danios should have a group of 20 in a minimum 20g long (30 inches) and on their own. You have good water parameters for this fish, very low GH and basic pH. But not in the smaller tank nor with the betta.

 

[The Big Figfetti]

Firt, the betta is a major factor. If male, I would not consider any other fish. If female, I understand from the betta members this is also serious risk. Keep an eye on the otos, when they get up to the betta's territory he/she may not welcome them. But I most assuredly would not add more fish.

The outside water in my view is fine for the fish you now have. Save the expense of RO.

If you re-home the betta, there are other small fish options, depending upon the tank size. Earlier a 20-inch light was mentioned, so presumably that is the length of the tank (?) and if so, this is small space. Celestial Pearl Danios should have a group of 20 in a minimum 20g long (30 inches) and on their own. You have good water parameters for this fish, very low GH and basic pH. But not in the smaller tank nor with the betta.

Thank you for that insight. I’ll skip on additional fish. I will eventually add another tank, but I’d like to keep working on this one until I’m satisfied that I have a handle on things.

Figgy seems like a pretty docile betta. He hasn’t bothered the otos at all. And they are quite active all around the tank. They are fun to watch. He just swims by and I’ve never seen him bully them.

What about shrimp? Would I be able to have shrimp with the outside water parameters?