Ameca Splendens - Have You Kept Them? Experiences?

[Malt_Vinegar]

I am not usually a big fan of livebearers, they tend to look a bit garish and un-natural!

However, I spotted some of these Ameca recently in my LFS, and they seemed to be perfect, big enough not to get eaten by my Geophagus Brasilliensis or Senegal Bichir and with a lovely understated colour/pattern.

I thought they would do a good job of picking algea off leaves, (what little I have in my tank) and hopefully provide a regular supply of fry without looking like a lollipop, or mobile underwater kaleidescope!

Anyone here kept them?

 

[OldMan47]

I really love my Amecas. They are easy care and look great when they mature. They are as easy to care for as a guppy but please, if you get some, unplug the heater in the tank they are housed in. They will do better if their tank follows room temperature than if you try to heat them to some 'ideal' temperature.
Be aware that reproduction is slow compared to things like guppies or mollies and they are not good to house with other peaceful species. A typical gestation is close to 8 weeks instead of 4 weeks and the fry are huge compared to what you see in a typical livebearer. Mine average about 1.5 to 2 cm in length at birth. Since the fry develop far more before being born than one of the poeciliids, the female's health enters into the welfare of the fry far more than a typical livebearer female. Do not, let me repeat that, do not feed the female high protein animal source protein diets. It has been implicated in the loss of several females of the species because the fry will grow to even a larger size than I specified and the female will 'die in childbirth'. I feed my gravid females, in fact the whole tank devoted to Amecas, a high vegetable content diet. They get 'spirulina flake' as the main source of food at all times. That means that a female who is carrying fry does not develop oversized fry.
My females survive a fry birth, not a drop, these guys actually nourish their fry in the womb in a fashion similar to mammals. The female actually provides nourishment to the fry, not just a protected area in which to develop like happens with a poeciliid. Amecas are not the peaceful livebearers that you might be used to, such as mollies or guppies, so do not place them in the same tank as corydoras as you might with a guppy. They have been known to kill cories. If you think of them as aggressive cichlids, you will make better choices of tank mates. I personally always keep mine in a single species only tank.
When it comes to a good idea of how Amecas work, you need to be aware that the whole concept of carrying sperm packets for up to 6 months that we often hear about with mollies, guppies, swords and platies does not apply to goodeids in general. As a good thumb rule, goodeids must mate for each individual pregnancy, again it is different than a poeciliid drop. A pregnancy in Amecas runs about 2 months, not one month.
In case you do not already know it, Amecas are not sexed the same way as the common livebearers. A generic term for goodeids is splitfins. The reason is simple. To find a male goodeid, you look for a split in the anal fin like I am showing in this red tailed goodeid.

You can almost see the concept that his anal fin looks sort of like a mitten with a leading edge much shorter than the rest of his anal fin. The female has an anal fin that is much more like what we are accustomed to seeing in common livebearers. This is his mate with a fan shaped anal fin.

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

Wow, great detail!

I was not aware of the sexing differences, I will have to make sure I get the right mix.

I do feed mainly frozen food to my tanks, so i might I experience problems with the fry growing too large?

 

[OldMan47]

It is not a good idea to feed too much animal protein to most goodeids. The fry growing large is no problem after they are born but it can cause severe problems to a female trying to deliver oversized fry. Ameca fry are already huge compared to what we consider normal for most fish fry.

At least you will be able to tell what you are getting. Many shops do not have experienced livebearer people who would be able to sex them.

 

[nmonks]

What evidence is this for being the case? It doesn't sound very plausible. For one thing, the only reason humans have a hard time delivering large babies is because the birth canal passes through a limited opening within a bowl-shaped pelvis. The pelvis has this shape because we're bipedal, and so the pelvis has to hold the internal organs in while also having enough space for the birth canal, two contradictory things. It's a famous example of evidence against intelligent design, and the reason why human babies are born with unfused skull bones and human females have slightly hinged pelvic bones.

In fish the pelvic girdle is very different since all it does is support the muscles of the pelvic fins. There are no bones around the birth canal of livebearing fish. It's hard to see how fry could get so large they'd cause problems. Genetics would dictate how large the fry get before birth, and all diet would affect surely is how many fry reach their maximum potential size. Put another way, human mothers can certainly have underweight babies if malnourished, but there's no evidence at all that human mothers who eat an above average diet produce babies of above average size.

Cheers, Neale

The fry growing large is no problem after they are born but it can cvause severe problems to a female trying to deliver oversized fry. Ameca fry are already huge compared to what we consider normal for most fish fry.

 

[nmonks]

Anyone here kept them?

Yes. They're lovely fish in some ways, very lively and surprisingly pretty. On the other hand, they're unbelievably nippy. I keep mine with pufferfish, loaches and a few other things. The Ameca nip at things like bleeding heart tetras and glassfish, species otherwise able to avoid problems with my South American puffers. So take care when choosing tankmates.

They eat anything but spend a lot of time eating the floating Indian Fern in the tank, and have a real thing for the roots of Amazon frogbit. Krill, bloodworms, Hikari cichlid gold, etc. are all appreciated.

Cheers, Neale

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I've read that the alpha male (who has vibrant colouring on the caudial fin) is very aggressive to submissive males and if more than one male is present, its best to have upto 8 other males, so that aggression is spread and nobody dies from bullying.

But what is the safest minimum number in a hareem setup? Could a trio or quartet work, or even a pair, if just the alpha male in the shop tank is bought?

Would you generally regard this species as a dweller of a specific area of the tank, or will it happily visit all areas regularly?

 

[helterskelter]

These fish prefer to live in groups of at least 4 fish (2 pairs). Any less and their rarely breed.

I've always kept them in at least 30 inch tank but 3 foot or larger is better.
I've never had much aggression between them, yes the alpha male will express himself to sub males and to the females but never violent.

Their more an mid to upper on average but they get every where.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

It may not come to anything, but I'm playing with the idea of a small number of fish that will mainly occupy mid-upper levels of my tank, in the space between the African Butterfly(ies) and the Humphead Glassfish (which are mid-lowers). I get the impression that the Butterfly Goodeid may be confident enough for this space, just like Golden Wonder Panchax/Killifish, but I already have some concerns over my stocking anyway (still to buy African Butterfly(ies); Spotted Climbing Perch; Humphead Glassfish; Steatocranus cichlid pair; another dwarf cichlid pair (possibly Nanochromis nudiceps)...

 

[OldMan47]

Since the Amecas are Mexican highlands fish that prefer a cool tank, I have no idea how they would work with African fish. The tolerated water chemistry is much the same in that they both do well with hard and high pH water. Temperature is another matter. I do not know the preferred temperature for the Africans but the Amecas do best at less than 24C, 75F.
With no interaction history, it is hard to predict how the semi-aggressive Amecas will work with your other fish. Amecas are very peaceful among themselves with no aggression but have been known to actually kill cories by picking on them.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

24C would be perfect, as it is the very same temp that has come up for the definites in my plans.

However, like I said, I'm getting concerns that once I have added the definites I should stop looking for anything else for the Rio240. I started a thread about my stocking, the suggestions from the two well-known stocking calculators (one of which is now a "dirty word" ###143### on here) contradict each other on how things will be long term. "Wills" on here was the only member to give me any thoughts (I would have loved to get many more, to get more perspective on the issue) and like me, he thinks I'm running a fine line on adding a trio of Golden Wonder Panchax in addition to African Butterflies.

Hmm, decisions, decisions...

 

[OldMan47]

The site you would like to name has been specifically blocked because the advice people were getting there was not very accurate. I understand that it gives a slick presentation and the author speaks of it as if he knew something personally about fish, but I have done enough checking to know how bad some of the advice really is. I know that my own expertise is very narrowly limited to livebearers and water chemistry. The person there makes believe he knows more than me about my own area of expertise and about every other aspect of fish keeping. He must have trouble walking through doors or finding a hat big enough to fit.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

OldMan47, any chance that you and anyone else can pass comment on my stocking and whether there really is room for a mid-top dweller, please?

From top to bottom...
1-4 African Butterfly Fish
[Mid-top dweller?]
6x Humphead Glassfish
4x Indian Red Tail Squirrel Loaches
2x Steatocranus cichlids
2x [another dwarf cichlid, proably Nanochromis nudiceps]

"Roamers"...
5x Pearl Danios
6x Denisons Barb
5x[but increasing to 11] Yellowtail Congo Tetra
2x Opsarius pulchellus
3xPanda garra
1x Spotted Climbing Perch

Actually, now looking at that list myself and thinking to when they are adults, that's got to be very close to the stocking limits even without mid-top dwellers... I should forget about Ameca splendens for now until such times as I have another tank (presuming that my Korrall 60 would not be fair on them, even with the powerhead and Juwel 1000 pump), yes?

 

[OldMan47]

The Amecas would fit into your "roamers" category. Depending on your tank size, they would probably fit in fine in terms of helping fill the space vertically. The next concern is tank capacity. How close are you to your ultimate tank stock capacity based on water surface area and volume. Many people do stock heavier than I would and seem to have decent success doing it. I am quite conservative in that respect. In terms of biological load, you can think of each adult being similar to maybe 2 fish shop mollies.
The final question must be compatibility. Since I keep my goodeids in single species tanks, I can only really observe their interactions with others of their own species. Amecas are tricky in that respect because they are largely vegetarian and typical algae eating fish who accept live or flake food well. They are also reputed to be quite tough with other fish and have been reported to always be a threat to cories in particular. All I have ever seen from mine is peaceful interactions with their own kind. I have found that almost any goodeid, including my Amecas,can be kept in a single species tank of about 20 US gallons, that's around 70 actual litres or a bit less because of the way they exaggerate tank capacities.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Right now I have al the "roamers" except the Spotted Climbing Perch, albeit that the young Denisons and Garra are coming to the end of their QT period in the Korrall60. The Rio240 is 48(l)x16(w)x20"(h).

I'm collecting the Squirrel Loaches tomorrow and possibly the other 6 Yelowtails, which will then leave what will probably be the most aggressive/territorial fish (albeit I think the Perch will be a pussy cat until he/she gets a bit bigger, LFS normally stock ~5cm specimens).