Am I Cycling My Tank Wrong?

[kinusan]

Hi,
 
Sorry about the long post, I could really use some advice on how to get my cycle going.
 
I bought a 24L tank with an internal filter (with two canisters containing various filter media) built in to the back on 1st June. I ran the tank for two days and the Fish store lady told me that I could then introduce fish. I knew nothing about cycling so I introduced my fish on 3rd June after a 25% water change and adding a spoonful of beneficial bacteria in a bottle. since my ammonia was at 0.25 I was also told to add Ammo-lock for several days, which I did. I added heaps of plants to help with the ammonia but unfortunately they all started to decompose after about a week since I only have LED lights over my tank. tested the ammonia again and it was through the roof, over 8ppm. I took out all the plants that were dying and only have one little banana lily left in the corner. I now have plastic plants in the tank.
 
on the 16th I did an 80% water change with a thorough gravel vacuum to remove dead plant bits and then followed with daily 50% water changes trying to get the ammonia down. For the last week I've tested ammonia daily and it has fluctuated between 2ppm and 4ppm. Nitrites are at zero and Nitrates are at zero. I've added secheam Prime to the new water when doing water changes. I've also added Seachem Stability (beneficial bacteria) everyday for the past week and added a one off dose of some other bacteria in a bottle product (refrigerated kind) a week ago.
 
Should I continue my water changes or am I doing more harm? Am I doing this all wrong?? My betta fish seems fine. I feed him 3 pellets once a day and he eats them ravenously.
 
thanks for your advice.

 

[Dpayton11]

You should have done a fishless cycle. It's a lot easier. It will prolly take you months of daily water changes till it gets cycled. You need to have 0 ppm of ammonia and nitrite at all times or your fish could die. I'd try to take it back to the store.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Have a really good read of the Beginners Resource Centre in my sig. Especially the fish in cycle part.
 
Keep on doing the waterchanges, you wan to try and have 0 ammonia and nitrite at all times or your Betta could get ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Just make sure to use dechlorinater every time.
If it's possible, try and ask your LFS if they can hold your Betta while you cycle your tank fishless. Then you can have your Betta back and not have to do as many waterchanges, you'll also be able to rest assured that your Betta almost certainly won't get ammonia/nitrite poisoning.
 
Another option could be to see if you can get some mature filter media from a friend or your LFS.

 

[Mamashack]

Unfortunately you have probably now realised you were badly advised by your LFS.
As said previously it could take months before the beneficial bacteria build a colony big enough to cope with your fish's waste. The reason it takes months fish-in as opposed to weeks fishless is because to stop ammonia poisoning you have to do water changes to reduce it, but in doing so you are removing the very thing that the bacteria feed on so it's going to be a very slow process since you don't want your fish to suffer whilst the filter is cycling.
I agree that the best option would be to return your betta until you can complete a fishless cycle. The alternative is being prepared to do daily or twice daily water changes depending on the results. Do you have your own test kit or are you relying on the LFS to do them for you? If it's the latter, get your own test kit - not dipsticks they are notoriously inaccurate. You'll need to check the water parameters twice daily if you go the fish-in route and do a water change whenever ammonia or nitrIte are above 0ppm.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[kinusan]

Thanks for your responses. I don't think its an option to rehouse my betta with my LFS. I have my own test kit and I test twice I day. so can I do multiple 50% changes in one day to get to ammonia to a safe level?
 
I also have a spare smaller 10L glass tank. Should I simply move my fish to that tank for a few weeks until my primary tank is established? I know Betta fish need a lot more room than 10L to stay healthy and happy but If Im prolonging my cycle indefinitely then maybe he can tolerate it for a while.
 
Im going to get some mature filter media this afternoon. Im assuming that I just put little bits amoung my filter media to act as a seed. I was planning to change the substrate at some point as currently I have large gravel that the plants don't seem to take to. If my cycle isn't going anywhere quickly then should I just change it all now?
 
so heres the plan:

• put the betta in a smaller 10L tank with freshwater (its much easier to do daily water changes) and some of his silk plants and some gravel
• take out the gravel in the primary tank and replace with plant stratum - refill with the old tank water that's full of ammonia - leave the tank alone for several weeks until it completes a  fishless cycle
• get some mature filter media and put it in the primary tank to aid in the cycle.

I know ill probably be restarting my cycle with all these changes. now that I know better about ammonia poising and the nitrogen cycle I just want to avoid harming my fish by doing a fish-in cycle. Would appreciate your thoughts or ideas.
 
thanks agian

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Your Betta would probably be worse in the 10L. The reason being is that it is a much smaller body of water so any/all ammonia the Betta produces would be more concentrated.
 
If you were to put the Betta in the 10L and then cycle the bigger tank fishless, you cann't simply put the ammonia filled water in there once, you have to add a constant supply of ammonia of about 2-3ppm. I would tell you to buy pure ammonia, however pure/clear ammonia is pretty much banned in Australia (same as New Zealand unfortunately) so you would have to add a shrimp (like one you would buy from the supermarket) and just put it in there for a few weeks, this is unfortunately rather unsightly so in some ways cycling fish in would be better.
 
Do as many and as big waterchanges as you feel needed to get the ammonia/nitrite under 0.25 ppm.
So, for example, if the ammonia is reading 1ppm, you would need to do 2 50% waterchanges or one 80% and one 20%. Likewise, if you see 0.25ppm ammonia, you would need to do a 25-30% waterchange.
 
However, if you're getting some mature filter media then that will speed your cycle up quite a lot so you (hopefully) shouldn't have to do as many waterchanges. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't still check your levels regularly.

 

[kinusan]

alright so I got a handful of ceramic noodles and also about 500ml of orange gunk water from a mature filter. according to the owner of the mature tank the gunk water contains bacteria. I did 70% change tonight with dechorinated water and then dispersed the ceramic noodles among my filter media. I also poured in the gunk water into the back part of the tank but it has now spread across the entire tank and clouded the water immensely. I hope that's not a bad thing...?

  my betta doesn't seem to like it. he's slowed down a lot and is just hiding.
 
ammonia is now reading 0.50. This is much lower than it was 

 a few days ago so thanks Blondielovesfish. I've read so many conflicting articles about water changes that I was reluctant to go beyond 50%.
 
I've also set up my 10l tank with some gravel and a heater just in case I need to transfer him into clean water.

 

[fluttermoth]

Your betta probably doesn't like the murky water, but it won't do him any harm.
 
Big water changes won't do any harm, and it's essential that you keep the ammonia down, however many water changes that takes. If your ammonia is currently at 0.5ppm, then you need to do another change now (75 or 80%) to reduce that.
 
Don't forget that your fish is producing ammonia constantly, as a by-product of respiration, so the minute you stop water changing, it will start to build up. As you don't want the ammonia (or nitrite) to ever get above 0.25ppm, in practical terms, that means doing as many water changes as needed to get the ammonia down to zero.
 
Hope that makes sense!

 

[snazy]

ammonia is now reading 0.50. This is much lower than it was
 

 
That's why your betta is hiding. It has nothing to do with the murky water.
And you can do multiple 50% water changes, that's no problem. Hopefully the matured noodles will help out with the cycle.