altums and discus together?

[wer34]

hi i have 1 juvenile blue diamond sicus in a 20g high with 2 bristlenose plecs and was wondering if i could add a pair of juvie altum angels. if not what are some other amazonian fish that would go well in that tank?

thanx

Nick

 

[Tolak]

Young discus need to be kept in numbers. One by itself is not a good idea. Keeping 6 in a 55 is a better idea, until you get a pair. A pair need at bare minimum a 20 high, a 29 is better.

The list of altum breeders is a short one, few succeed. Those that do meet with limited success. Thay means that any you run into are more than likely wild caught. They will carry organisims that will harm the discus, requiring a long quar procedure, possibly with preventive meds.

Altum angels grow larger than scalare angels, the ones typically seen. There is no way you could keep them happily in that tank. Even in a larger tank it's difficult to keep angels of any sort & discus together, due to different eating habits.

Most people with discus keep them in a species only tank, the plecs or maybe a few corys are ok with them, anything else usually causes difficulties, with the discus suffering.

I would upgrade to a larger tank, with a few more discus. A single young discus is not a happy discus.

Tolak

 

[freddyk]

A pair need at bare minimum a 20 high, a 29 is better

A 20 high is much to small for a pair of Discus, and a 29 is pushing the limits. Discus will reach a pretty good size if you give them a chance. Untill you can get a larger tank it would be best to leave it. If a larger tank is not an option then I'd suggest finding a home for the Discus and getting more suitable fish. What makes a lousy home for Discus can make an ideal home for say, Rams.

 

[big mick]

Ive never had any problems keeping angels and discus together but I agree your tank is way too small for 2 discus.

Ive heard before that plecs can be bad to keep with discus because they can latch onto their side....it was on this forum I read it but I have to say I have never seen it happen.

I say get a bigger tank if possible, discus are a pleasure to keep.

 

[wer34]

first off, i only have 1 discus. it has lived in the 20 gallon high by itself with no problems at all and hasa actually grown from 1.5 inches in diameter to almost 5 inches in about 3 months. the tank is over filtered and heavily planted and my discus in in tip top shape. I've done my research and have owned fish for a few years now, so please dont tell me to change something that works perfectly fine, IMO a 20 gallon high is a large enough tank for a single adult discus. i was pretty sure angels wouldn't work with discus in the 1st place. i just wanted to make sure. is there any small schooling fish that could go in that tank like cardinals or some other sort of tetra? beacause the only fish i ever see is the discus and would like a little more movement in the tank. thanx

Nick

 

[sylvia]

Seeing as you've researched your fish I'm sure you are aware of the sizes an adult discus should attain (note 'should' as few even reach 8"). I'm sure you are also aware of how fragile they are and of all their special requirements and I'm sure you'd want to give your fish enough room so that it can move around. As such, I'm sure you don't plan to permanently keep it in that 20 gallon... I know you'll find breeders keeping pairs in a 20 high or whatever but those fish rarely grow to over 6" and never reach tip top condition.

As for altums. They'd work with discus (after the procedures described if they happen to be wild caught) but in a 20 gallon they would not. In fact, in a 20 gallon an adult altum would be impersonating a shark from one of those movies with its dorsal permanently out of the water.

As far as cardinal tetras are concerned, they are kept with discus because they are generaly large enough to not get eaten and can tolerate the high temps. A school of them would work in a 20 gallon but, IMO, you've already got a fish in there that doesn't belong and you shouldn't add any more until you've done something about it. I'm saying this because the way you said you 'only ever see the discus' suggests to me you have other fish in there too...?

Oh and just because the fish has survived (and luckily discus are getting hardier with each new generation), it doesn't mean it has enjoyed spending it's young life entirely alone. In the wild they're found in large schools and juveniles always do better when kept with other juveniles. Granted adults do ok as pairs or even alone.

I would leave things as they are unless you upgrade at some point or at least until the discus has managed to reach full size.

 

[Tolak]

As far as a 20 high being bare minimum, that is for activly spawning breeding pairs. You do not use a 20 for growing out & pairing discus. The 20 used in that sort of situation contains the 2 fish, a breeding cone or other object, heater, & sponge filter, nothing more. After they are retired from breeding, or decide to take a break, which they often do, they should go into a larger tank. That is why a 29 is better, you can wait it out, see if they are just taking a break, or if they are getting too old for breeding.

I could put a 1.5 inch common plec in a 20, or a 10 for that matter, it will be 5" in 3 months, probably bigger, but I guarantee it would not be a comfortable fish. That discus you have is uncomfortable. I have studied discus breeding, as many of the tricks of discus breeding pertain to angels, which is what I do breed. If I didn't have to work, maintain my house along with my mom's & aunt's house, as well as still maintain a normal social life, I would try to breed discus. The things I'm doing now are pretty much just preparation for trying that when I retire 20 odd years from now.

A gentleman who is a member of the local aquatics club, as well as more or less my mentor in this hobby breeds discus, has for years.. He has been breeding fish longer than I have been alive, I'm 45. He upgraded his 20 talls to 29's a while back, that's the reason I have so many 20 talls. I could give him a quick call & get back to you, but he will say pretty much the same I have said.

Here's a link to one of the best discus sites around, you could post your concerns there, it's an extremely knowledgable group;

http/www.simplydiscus.com/forum/index.php

Tolak

 

[jasonl]

getting back to your original question. I kept discus for years. You really should upgrade your tank to a larger tank. A 20 gallon high is really not large enough for the single discus. if your discus is doing fine by its self i wouldn't get anymore. especially if you cant afford the extra space or maintenence. I would go with atleast a 29 gallon for your discus. but if your already buying a new tank i would get a 55 cuz it's really not much more expensive. If you want to add more fish you WILL need a larger tank. Also, i would get the plecos out of there. they can turn agressive and suck on you discus's slime coat as the pleco matures. I had this problem and it killed a very nice large discus i had. I learned my lesson and i would hate to see you do the same.

 

[wer34]

i do have a 29 gallon tank but it already has a community of fish, im sure i could fit the fish from the 29 in the 20 and move the discus and hoplo cats to there. its gonna be a lot of work but will be well worht it in the end

thanx for ur oppinions

Nick