Algal Rollercoaster Ride

[mark4785]

Well, as implied by the topic title, I've been having a few problems with different algal formations in my aquarium.

First to form was cyanobacteria in some branches of my limnophila sessiliflora. I removed two out of three of these plants and trimmed down the remaining one so that more flow can get from one side of the plant to the other. I was told recently that flow isn't the cause of cyano; instead it's primarily caused by a lack of nitrate flowing to certain areas of the aquarium. I've re-situated one powerhead and ordered another to further increase flow. As a result, cyano is no longer recurring.

Second to form was green-dust algae which hasn't recurred after I removed it from the glass. Next up was green-spot algae which I'm told can be quite common in a brightly lit aquarium; I've kept this form of algae on the glass because I actually like it.

Last to form was red brush algae (not actually red; it is growing on the glass, plants and filter box and resembles white fluff) and it is this form of algae that I'm not sure what has caused it to form. One source I went to said that it grows in waters with an high KH and PH level. Well my KH level is low and my PH is always around 6.6. Other than this small clue, I have no idea why such a frustrating and fast-spreading algae has formed.

I do have a few ideas what may have caused it and was wondering what others think of the following explanations:

1. Fluctuating c02 (caused by inexperience): When the tank lights come on (again, these are 2 x t5 28w fluorescent strip lights) the drop-checker is always green as the c02 is being injected (via a Dennerle c02 comfort range cylinder) 2-3 hours prior to the lights coming on. However, the c02 also goes off 2 hours before the lights are scheduled to go off; would this drop in c02 trigger the start of an algal problem?(especially since it's approaching the end of a reasonable photo-period).

On the topic of c02, how do I know when I've reached 30ppm of c02 which is supposedly the best level of c02? Any techniques for keeping fluctuations to a minimum?

2. Removal of two fast growing limnophilla sessifloras': I remember the words 'plant up' distinctly in my mind as I know dense plant growth combats algae. The Limnophilla I removed were growing extremely quickly and would reach the surface of the water. Due to not being able to grow further out of the water they would arch and take up swimming space. I got fed up of this and got fed up of having to trim them; whatsmore, cyanobacteria was growing on the inner routes. I chucked them away as I didn't want to start dealing with cyano again. Ever since their removal, I've had an occurence of brush algae which has never been seen in the tank before.


What is the best method for removing this brush-algae? I can see it has white visible spores (similar to cyano) which transport it all over the tank so I'm eagar to get rid of it.

Mark.

 

[Jamepsss]

I've just beaten (fingers crossed) an awful case of BBA. Here's what I did...

- Trimmed or binned any plants with BBA attached.

- Scrubbed bog wood with weak bleach solution.

- Manually removed what I could from tanks walls/hardware.

- Added a siamese algae eater.

- Double dosed Flourish Excel for three weeks, then daily single dose.

5 weeks later and I can't see a single tuft of the stuff. BBA has got to be the biggest pain in the a**e I've encountered in my two years in the hobby.

 

[SuperColey1]

One source I went to said that it grows in waters with an high KH and PH level. Well my KH level is low and my PH is always around 6.6.

Thats a speculative suggestion I made years ago too in conversation with someone even more techy than me. We were talking KH though not Ph However we found it not to be true after a while.

Ph shouldn't be mentioned here. KH is the parameter. Ph of 6.6 is your 'after CO2' Ph. Its not the actual Ph relating to the water hardness. We speculated that BBA was pretty hard to get rid of in hard water.

Other than this small clue, I have no idea why such a frustrating and fast-spreading algae has formed.

Its a CO2 reactive algae. Appears in deadspots like on wood, plants close to the substrate and also leaves close to the light. Simple answer is poor CO2 distribution. Cancel the order for the powerhead and get a Koralia (or similar). Will sort this problem out in a metter of weeks if not days once you get the CO2 stabilised and distributed well.

Fluctuating c02 (caused by inexperience):

You beat me to it. lol see above. not inexperience so much the CO2 may be fine in most areas of the tank but not perfectly distributed.

On the topic of c02, how do I know when I've reached 30ppm of c02 which is supposedly the best level of c02? Any techniques for keeping fluctuations to a minimum?

Drop checker with 4dKH solution and bromo blue Ph Reagent. Will be blue when you add it, will turn green when in the tank as it reacts to the CO2 gaseous exchange, a mid grass green will be in the region of 30ppm, light green (limeade) just above which is where I aim for, yellow is going to be dead fish or close to.

There is pin here:
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=268972

Removal of two fast growing limnophilla sessifloras':

YES and NO.

YES-If you disturb the substrate by removing plants you can get problems due to the ammonia you release. Always follow any substrate disturbance with a large water change.

NO-Removing 2 stem plants isn't going to cause a problem.

I remember the words 'plant up' distinctly in my mind as I know dense plant growth combats algae.

If we are talking about adding 75% substrate coverage 2 stems is going to add up to 1% on your size tank.

BBA is one of those things that can be no-existent and then suddenly appear like mad. I didn't see it for months when I got my first tank then suddenly it was the largest algae factor in the tank. Koralia sorted it out when it got the CO2 working properly within the tank.

What is the best method for removing this brush-algae? I can see it has white visible spores (similar to cyano) which transport it all over the tank so I'm eagar to get rid of it.

If the CO2 is corrected by the Koralia then this should just recede. however sometimes a bit remains. In that case turn the filter off, get your excel/Easycarb and dose the recommende level by squirting it directly on and affected area. Ten minutes later turn the filter back on. Do a different area each day.

This algae should be black or red in appearance. After the Excel/Easycarbo spot dosing it will turn grey then white. Shrimp and some fish will eat it as soon as it starts to go grey.

BBA is one of the most common algaes in NON-PLANTED aquariums. This is the black stuff that grows on decor and equipment in the tank and has to be scrubbed off. In a planted setup where the CO2 is balanced it should be no more a problem than a few dots around the tank.

So 100% CO2 issue most likely distribution of rather than actual injection levels.

AC

 

[mark4785]

Cancel the order for the powerhead and get a Koralia (or similar). Will sort this problem out in a metter of weeks if not days once you get the CO2 stabilised and distributed well.

But isn't a Korailia a form of powerhead? I bought this particular powerhead as I thought it would do the same job has it's Koralia equivalent: http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400115645296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT .

a mid grass green will be in the region of 30ppm, light green (limeade) just above which is where I aim for, yellow is going to be dead fish or close to.

I always seem to end up with a limeade colour too. I started to wonder if too much c02 could be harmful knowing it was going passed the green colouration.

YES-If you disturb the substrate by removing plants you can get problems due to the ammonia you release. Always follow any substrate disturbance with a large water change.

Should I be doing W/C's after a gravel-vac? My new gravel-vac tends to make the water go cloudy but it's excellent at removing bits and pieces. I used it to remove the red brush algae (which is actually white in appearance which means it's dead, right?).

If the CO2 is corrected by the Koralia then this should just recede. however sometimes a bit remains. In that case turn the filter off, get your excel/Easycarb and dose the recommende level by squirting it directly on and affected area. Ten minutes later turn the filter back on. Do a different area each day.

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but what does a squirt look like under water?! Would I use a pipette to squirt it? What is the relevance of turning the filter off while applying EasyCarbo? I've used it before but never turned anything off.

This is what the red brush algae looks like at the moment (being 2-3 times as bad just yesterday):

1.

2.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Since the easy carbo / Flourish Excel contains a mild algaecide, its important to dose an affected area with as high a concentration as possible. So the use of a pipette to direct the easy carbo on the affected area is done. Turning off your filter simply allows the easy carbo to remain in the area which you have just directed the easy carbo in!

 

[SuperColey1]

But isn't a Korailia a form of powerhead? I bought this particular powerhead as I thought it would do the same job has it's Koralia equivalent:

Ahhh. Its all in the wording. The item you have bought is a circulation pump (same as a Koralia). It isn't a powerhead. Powerheads are uni-directional in that they push water in one direction. Circulation pumps like the Koralia push more flow in all directions and yet give the impression of less power. They of course give more power but it is spread over a much wider area. The one you've bought is a biggie but should allow you to remove the Cayman completely and just use the other internal you bought which I assume is amaller?

As per previous posts and threads don't worry about bacterial colonies etc. Many aquascapers use as minimal media in their filters as possible. Add to that when you take into account the substrate plants etc the filter media is only 1 area of a large 'system' that bacteria colonies are found in. I was actually reading last night a discussion from some Germans who are more concerned that their filters may beat the plants to the nutrients (They tend to dose urea or ammonium over there rather than KNO3) and therefore they are more concerned that the filter may take it before the plants get to it.

I always seem to end up with a limeade colour too. I started to wonder if too much c02 could be harmful knowing it was going passed the green colouration.

Well the drop checker is an indicator. Short of paying a lot of £ its about the best we can do. Its failing is that it only tells you what is happening in one area. The ppm close to the source of CO2 may be circa 100ppm. the ppm at the substrate may be in the single digits. This is the main problem really. We try and put the DC in an area furthest away from the source to get a reading that is not boosted by the source but there will stil be a major difference in different areas. That circulation pump should sort it out.

Before you get the pump in try moving the DC around the aquarium to see differences. Once the pump is in it should level off the playing field.

Should I be doing W/C's after a gravel-vac? My new gravel-vac tends to make the water go cloudy but it's excellent at removing bits and pieces. I used it to remove the red brush algae (which is actually white in appearance which means it's dead, right?).

You shouldn't be doing gravel vacs. To get rid of the Cyano yes, but aftre that tlet the plants take care of things that fall to the ground. At the most use the syphon hose above the gravel to suck things out of the top layer.

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but what does a squirt look like under water?! Would I use a pipette to squirt it? What is the relevance of turning the filter off while applying EasyCarbo? I've used it before but never turned anything off.

As per the poster above r.e. the filter. purely so you don't spot dose only for the circulation to move it straight on. I use syringes. The ones you get with kids medicines or can buy cheap. They are good for dosing all things. By squirt I mean that if your tank is 120litres and the dose is 2ml daily then you put the pipette/syringe into the tank and 'fire' it at the desired location. by squirt I mean that if I had 2ml in my syringe then I would probably be pushing 0.5ml at a few little areas close together.

Get some syringes they are much easier to deal with than pipettes and much more accurate in terms of measuring. The kids medicines ones (3ml) measure in 0.1ml increments so you can get pretty accurate with Nano dosing The 10ml ones are in 0.5 or 1ml increments and I buy blunt needles for them so they reach into the bottle further.

This is what the red brush algae looks like at the moment (being 2-3 times as bad just yesterday):

First picture doesn' load. Can't see the algae in the second. Can you circle it in MSpaint?


AC

 

[coldcazzie]

But isn't a Korailia a form of powerhead? I bought this particular powerhead as I thought it would do the same job has it's Koralia equivalent:

Ahhh. Its all in the wording. The item you have bought is a circulation pump (same as a Koralia). It isn't a powerhead. Powerheads are uni-directional in that they push water in one direction. Circulation pumps like the Koralia push more flow in all directions and yet give the impression of less power. They of course give more power but it is spread over a much wider area. The one you've bought is a biggie but should allow you to remove the Cayman completely and just use the other internal you bought which I assume is amaller?

So it doesn't matter that they call this a "wavemaker"? I thought there was a difference, in terms of whether it moves or changes intensity?

 

[SuperColey1]

Wavemaker is just a descriptive used by them. Something to sell and market with. If it is at the top it makes waves, if not it doesn't. Hardly be called a wavemaker if it is being used lower down

Similar to calling substrates or fertilisers 'nutrient rich' and 'complete' and then finding out they don't contain N or P (or reading their marketing blurb of 'Does not contain N and P to avoid algae'

Artistic licence if you like

Powerheads originally were named as they stood at the 'head' of the undergravel filter. In essence they are just pumps, but powerheads do point in one direction. There's no way to put it at the 'head' of anything like the older style ones.

You can't alter the intensity of the circulation pump. That is unless it is hooked into a wave machine. Not sure if these' smaller Koralias (nano, 1,2,3,4) have that option of connecting together. The bigger ones do.

Most powerheads also have nothing where you can alter the intensity. Except for the ones on filters. there may be some but not something I'm that clued up on really

AC

 

[SuperColey1]

Double post. lol......or is it.ha, ha, ha

 

[coldcazzie]

ok thanks.

 

[ian]

i'm also struggling to see the red brush...i can see either Oedogonium or thread algae with some detritus in it. Which would suggest the C02 is still a little on the low side.

 

[mark4785]

i'm also struggling to see the red brush...i can see either Oedogonium or thread algae with some detritus in it. Which would suggest the C02 is still a little on the low side.

Well as I said the red brush has a white appearance. The c02 is always at recommended concentrations.

The algae (whatever it was) hasn't returned ever since I sucked it off all surfaces using the gravel-vac so obviously the conditions in which it grows are no longer present.

 

[SuperColey1]

Well as I said the red brush has a white appearance. The c02 is always at recommended concentrations.

The algae (whatever it was) hasn't returned ever since I sucked it off all surfaces using the gravel-vac so obviously the conditions in which it grows are no longer present.

I had a spat about 3 years ago with someone who kept telling me poor CO2 was casuing me the algae issues I had. I went on one suggesting he wasn't listening and that my DC was always bordering yellow.

I actually got banned from a popular forum over my loss of composure. lol

He was right though. CO2 was being injected at optimum. Most areas were receiving optimum but those that weren't were the problem.

Once you get the Koralia type pump in you may find that the optimum you thought you had was indeed actually not so good. Not in terms of input, just distribution at which point you may also see many algaes start to recede.

Flow issues can be one of the hardest possibilities to accept and understand as flow dynamics are uncontrollable really. Very hard to see but in Rivers you can se this where a fast flowing river may have a few noks and crannies at the edges where there are stagnant areas. the areas where debris collects etc.

Similar sort of thing in the aquarium where swirls and eddys etc are caused by the obstructions (plants/decor etc) within the tank.

At that point as long as we have got the easy to sort things, external inputs like CO2 injection and nutrients and keep up on routines the flow is the only non controllable thing there. So we up the flow to try and increase the chances of removing deadspots. They will probably still be slower movement areas than the open spaces but no longer a problem in terms of distribution nutrients and CO2

May seem like a hassle at the mo with all these problems however I find these days I was much more interested while the battle raged than I am now. Nothing to do, No challenges etc . lol

But then I like the challenge and once its mastered I move on normally. I like my fish tank and I love its beauty but it can be quite uninteresting to me at times

AC

 

[mark4785]

He was right though. CO2 was being injected at optimum. Most areas were receiving optimum but those that weren't were the problem.

But if it was as simple as that in my situation, the algae would have re-grown by now right? It hasn't despite not making any changes to the amount of flow or the direction of flow.

The only thing that I can think of which caused the algae was the disruption to the gravel due to uprooting the 2 x limnophila. There was an aweful lot of detritus and muck that came from in between it's branches and roots and all the water went cloudy.

If stagnant water is where detritus and smell builds up then I'm quite sure that after the uprooting of those plants, the entire substrate and decor had those conditions as the detritus (and god knows what else) that was contained in between the plant branches/roots was spread all over the tank. In other words, the effects of a 'deadspot' (i.e. build of detritus and nitrogen) were being transported across the tank due to the uprooting of those plants (which contained deadspots, hence the reason for the BGA on the plants).

 

[mark4785]

Well I've now started to experience the re-growth of a white fluff substance (previously thought it was red brush algae as mentioned in my first post) on my glass. It particularly starts to grow after a waterchange is conducted and seems to like growing on top of the green-spot algae. Unfortunately, it's also growing on two of my plants and it's impossible to remove so it looks like I'm going to have to heavily trim the affected plants.

I'm not a fan of short term solutions such as trimming back or throwing problem plants away, I'd much rather know whats causing the problem so I can stop it in it's tracks.

Just thought I'd reiterate that I have a 3000 LPH flow rate powerhead installed, a 800-900 LPH internal filter and another 2000 LPH internal filter with UV light. The fish look like they are swimming in a tornado so I hope the problem can be pinned down to something other than lack of flow. I've also started doing gravel-vacs prior to W/C's so I am able to remove any disturbed detritus to stop algae from feeding on it. I've tried upping my phosphate dosage from 10ml to 13ml (10ml of my phosphate solution equates to 2ppm of phosphate; although my test kit indicted 0.5 ppm of phosphate) since a lack of phosphate can cause green-spot algae but I'm yet to see any improvements.

Does anybody have any pointers for helping me rectify:

-growth of white fluff on plant leaves
-growth of same fluff on glass
-green-spot algae

Mark.