Albino Corys Sick - 4 Deaths In 6Months

[chester1066]

HI all, Id really love some help with this ongoing dilemma - feel like ive done so much and got so very little way with getting them back to health

Tank size: 170 litres
pH: not tested
ammonia: 0
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 20pmm
kH: not tested
gH: not tested
tank temp: 75degrees

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
I have 20 albino corydoras and at least 5 are showing signs of illness.
Cory number 1. fin loss and redness around loss area but some recovery
Cory number 2. fin loss and redness but some recovery
Cory number 4. Fin loss, paleness, lethargy, anorexia
Cory number 5. Darting, overall change of colour to darker red, and today what looks like 2 ulcerated circular areas around front fins..difficult to see because of his rapid swimming,loss of appetite tonight when feeding.
Cory number 6. Appears to have changed shape - no fin loss or change in colour, but looks a little bit unbalanced - front of body unable to rest on bottom of tank. some rapid gill movement. no loss of appetite from what i can see.

Ive lost 1 angel, 2 pearl gouramis and one young Cory in the last 6 months (i moved house 8 months). The Cory was the last fish to die, approx 3 weeks ago - started changing colour..red streaks at rear of fish which crept steadily and quickly across its whole body




Volume and Frequency of water changes:
My usual pattern is about 30% fortnightly. But due to illness its been as much as 5 times a week - some at 50%, some as little as 20%

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:
Aquasafe added to each bucket of water to dechlorinate. Media in tank? not sure what that means...sorry!

Tank inhabitants: 20 varying ages of albino corys mixed sex

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): 2 assasin snails approx 11m ago.(one was dead i think when i got it!) 2 filters changed at seperate times in last 7 months (I have Fluval oversize filter), 1 terracota flowerpot soaked in water for a day before adding - this was added during fish loss as i felt the corys might need extra places to hide in order to feel less stressed.

Exposure to chemicals:
Ive treated the tank twice in the last 8 months. One does of Interpet anti slime and velvet and 2 weeks after, with Interpet Finrot and fungus.
That was approx 3 months ago.

 

[VaegaVic]

Hi there,

Red streaks can be a sign of dirty water and ammonia poisoning, but if your ammonia levels are fine, I really believe this sounds like hemorrhagic septicemia. This is a bacterial disease (though I believe there is also a viral version), and can be caused by dirty water, fin rot, and any other number of diseases. Some fish in advanced stages will show hemorrhaging around the eyes and gills and loss of appetite, but I've heard of milder versions of septicemia too, that don't come on as quickly. Most cases are coupled with lethargia, so you should watch for sluggish behaviour in your fish. To me, though, the red streaks really do indicate septicemia, especially coupled with the loss of scales. A lot of fish with septicemia will show red ulcers, which may look like lost scales I guess.

Hemorrhagic septicemia is a very serious disease, and can progress quite quickly. I've never had to deal with it, but I've read it's contagious, so be prepared to quarantine your fish if necessary. The treatments I've read about include Maracyn and Maracyn 2, as well as medicated fish food. You may want to contact a vet or a knowledgeable fish dealer to help confirm the diagnosis and suggest a treatment option, though. Oh, and when medicating, always remember to take the carbon out of your filter, if you have any in it. It will strip the meds right out of the water before they can do their job.



Sadly however, Maracyn and any other antibiotics are illegal for use by public in the UK, so you will most likely have to use some sort of broad spectrum anti-bacterial treatment like Interpet No 09 Anti Internal Bacteria.

I really hope this helps in some way.

- Vic

 

[WILDER]

How many fish and which type.
What's the make of the test kit you are using.

Red streaking is caused by bad water quality, dirty tanks, septicemia.
Red or pink sores with a white edging is usually ulcers.
Redness around the fins septicemia.
Has the fish lost weight due to not eating.

Darting can mean the fish is dying, toxins, parasites external and internal, ph shock,bacterial, overdose of meds.

Is any of the fish showing any of these signs.
Flicking and rubbing.
Excess mucas.
Red inflamed gills, bleeding gills, or pale gills with excess mucas.
Swimming in a jerky movment.
Any greyish white slime on the fish.

It sounds like a severe bacterial infection. But parasites can also cause these symtoms.
Aswell as bad water quality and dirty tank.
Bacteria can also gain entry throw cuts and wounds.

Lfs meds only work on mild bacteria infections in the uk.
Once septicemia advances it hard to cure.
Also the bacteria from the fish enters the tank and can infect other fish.
With having so many ill fish the whole tank needs treating, so I wouldn't advise isolating the sick fish.

There funranol 2 by jbl but it wipes the benefical bacteria out in the filter.
But a bad strain of bacteria wants wiping out.

To get antibiotics in the uk you need to get in touch with a vet.

 

[chester1066]

Thanks so much, both of you for you replies.

Ok, there is no slime on their bodies, nor any mucus. Some have pale gills and 1 or 2 look overall quite pale. There are redish areas around their fins, but hard to distinguish between their "normal" colour because they are all albino. There has only been one shortlived moment of flicking , from ONE cory but none others. No flicking or rubbing now. Some darting around from one of the corys that appears to have 2 small ulcerated areas around its fin.
I have 20 albino corys of varying ages. Im using test tube kits made by Sera, one each for ammonia, ph, nitrite and nitrate.

I have Interpet Internal Bacteria in my fish medi kit and can use immediately, but am worried i might do more damage. I did think it was septicemia (thanks Vic).
I have no way of isolating sick fish - i dont have a hospital tank or the means to get hold of one, so that option is slim. I took the fish on 6years ago when my workplace closed down - they had 2 tanks running and no one would take them, so i did! Ive learned a hell of a lot about fish since then, but never had the space or means for a 3rd tank which i could use as a hospital.

Yes, some look lethargic and appear to have stopped eating. Others look really well. Some look pinker than others. A couple perhaps look a little like they cant balance as well as they used to..their bodies look slightly mishapen. They have layed eggs in the last couple of weeks, a few times - but im guessing it wasnt the poorly ones.

My options right now, today are : Interpet Internal Bacteria meds. Or my sister has Melafix and Pimafix that she said I can have.
I dont think the tank is dirty, because i gravel clean almost every time I change the water. I DO have a snail problem, which causes blockages in the filter and causess lots of poo in the tank which i clean regularly - when i clean the filter out their are literally thousands (no exaggeration). I used to collect them all in buckets and take them somewhere, but now ive given up doing that. I absolutely wont kill them - and im aware there are meds out there that do, but Im not going down that route. So i try to get the eggs before they hatch - not easy.
I only feed once a day, so im not sure im overfeeding them -which ive heard can be the cause of snail influx. The dirt that comes out of the pea gravel isnt a lot.

I hope my answers help? Im by no means an expert on fish!
Thanks again
Emma

 

[WILDER]

It sounds like a severe baceria infection to me.

I would by the furanol 2 by jbl online. But it will wipe the beneifical bacteria out in the filter.

You can also double dose anti internal bacteria med by interpet in severe cases. I don't rate the med once bacteria infections progress.

Keep a look out for parasite signs.

Some info on septicemia.


Septicemia

Symptoms:

Fish may have reddening at fin bases, blood streaks throughout the fins and body, small hemorrhages around the eyes. Dull listless behavior and lack of appetite may also be present.


Cause:

Systemic bacterial infection caused by various bacteria, including Aeromonas, Pseudomonas and Vibrio. The illness is often brought on by poor water quality or as a result of parasitic infestations or other infections. These bacteria enter the blood stream and circulate through the tissues causing inflammation and damage. Inflamed blood vessels in the skin and at fin bases stand out. Blood vessel and heart tissue damage cause hemorrhaging and consequently leakage of body fluids into the abdomen, which may lead to Dropsy.


Treatment:

Water conditions must be improved for all fish in the tank, regardless of how many fish are infected. Check your water�s Treat with Kanacyn or Tetracycline as well as with a medicated food if the fish will eat. If parasites are suspected, all the fish in the tank should be treated with antiparasitic medication. Using salt to help restore osmotic balance might be helpful.

Other signs of a severe bacterial infection.

The third type of infection produced by Aeromonas is by no means the least. This form is often the most virulent (potent) and can be rapidly fatal. This insidious form does not produce any noticeable external ulcers. The most notable feature is a behavioral change in which the infected fish generally become listless and lethargic. Some fish may lose color or appear darker. The fish do not feed, frequently seem off balance and may sink to the bottom laying on their sides. The course of the disease is rapid, and by the time the behavioral changes are noticed, the entire population of a tank may succumb, sometimes in a day or so. This is an internal infection, with the bacteria being found in the kidneys and blood of these fish. The bacteria produce potent toxins that account for the severity of the disease

 

[chester1066]

Thanks Wilder,

Ive looked up Furinol 2 and im wondering do people usually bathe the fish in the treated water, for say, 30mins? (in a hospital tank?) - would it be OK to put it in my tank, as i have no hospital? But , like you said, it will wipe out the good bacteria in my filter?
What can i do about that?

Many thanks

Emma

 

[WILDER]

I would add the furanol 2 to the main tank with having so many ill fish.

You could always ask for some mature filter sponges off members on here to kick start your tank again.
There a pinned topic at the top of tropical discussion.

 

[mbsqw1d]

I'd say you're gonna have to treat the whole tank too. This bacteria will probably be on everything else in your tank not just your cories. If you are UK based I dont mind sending you some mature media when you need some.

This was mentioned somewhere above:
Using salt to help restore osmotic balance might be helpful.

^ just wanted to point out that you don't want to be doing this for corydoras.

good luck mate

edit: can you test your PH please?

 

[chester1066]

Thanks again all for all the advice.

I did a 30% water change last night and tested this morning in the daylight.
The results were:
Ammonia 0 -0.1 I found it really hard to distinguish between the two colours on the chart.
Ph 7
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 40pmm (i know this is high, ive never really been able to get it down past 20pmm)

My dilemma is that Im going on holiday this Sunday for 7 days.
Someone will be coming in to feed the fish every 2 days and i have their light on timer, however - do i put the meds in before or when i get back??
I want to treat before but the likelihood of finding Furanol 2 and having it delivered in time to treat is really low. Unless my LFS has it, which judging from some replies Ive read on this forum, I most likely wont find it that easily.

I REALLY appreciate the offer of mature media - thank you so much, its folk like you that make the world go round Thank you

I am going to another water change tonight and ensure the ammonia is absolutely zero.

xx

 

[WILDER]

Ok.
Not looking good then if you have to go away.
Tell your friend that it would be best to remove the dead fish. Not nice but it has to be done.

Let us know the outcome when you get back.
Good Luck.

Increase aeration while you are away.

 

[chester1066]

Oh, ok so I guess that means the outcome is going to be pretty hideous
Should i treat with what i have Interpet Internal Bacteria, starting tomorrow or will that be too weak? Im not going until Sunday, so I could have 6 days...

Oh, i dont know what to do

 

[WILDER]

I suppose it better than nothing the interpet med.
Double dose. But it could finish the weaker fish off.

 

[VaegaVic]

Oh, ok so I guess that means the outcome is going to be pretty hideous
Should i treat with what i have Interpet Internal Bacteria, starting tomorrow or will that be too weak? Im not going until Sunday, so I could have 6 days...

Oh, i dont know what to do

I would have personaly said it would be better to use the Interpet med first rather than going with the bacteria destroying med anyway.

 

[WILDER]

Oh, ok so I guess that means the outcome is going to be pretty hideous
Should i treat with what i have Interpet Internal Bacteria, starting tomorrow or will that be too weak? Im not going until Sunday, so I could have 6 days...

Oh, i dont know what to do

I would have personaly said it would be better to use the Interpet med first rather than going with the bacteria destroying med anyway.

But the interpet not that good. It only affective on mild bacteria infections.

 

[VaegaVic]

Oh, ok so I guess that means the outcome is going to be pretty hideous
Should i treat with what i have Interpet Internal Bacteria, starting tomorrow or will that be too weak? Im not going until Sunday, so I could have 6 days...

Oh, i dont know what to do

I would have personaly said it would be better to use the Interpet med first rather than going with the bacteria destroying med anyway.

But the interpet not that good. It only affective on mild bacteria infections.

True, but I'd rather give it a try first then wiping out my entire bacterial colony, possibly causing more problems in terms of ammonia, nitrite etc.
Especially if there's no guarantee it will actually work.
Rather than go after a problem with a sledge hammer, I'd gently take my time in working up the ladder with meds.
Sure this could possibly take more time, and I might possibly loose more fish in the process of treatment, but at least I wont lose the bacterial colony causing even more problems.

Each to his own at the end of the day, but either way, I wish you the best of luck.