Advice.....

[ReMz]

Some of you may know that I was having trouble with my two bettas that got in a fight. the young one was pretty miserable looking when i left for my trip, and the older guy was acting just fine.

I came home from my trip (had the house-sitter treating melafix and feeding) and both seemed just to be OK. The house-sitter has had fish before and was competent, so there shouldn't be any problems there.

now the young guy is acting miserable, but he is still 70% responsive and swims around in intervals. His colors are bad and his fins are clamped quite a bit. Flash (my older fish... age unknown) just started acting mopey only an hour after i got back. As of a couple hours ago, he sits wherever he can at the bottom of the tank and the filter current blows him everywhere (there is hardly any current). He ends up sideways and plastered against his decoration in front of the tank trying to look at me. He only swims (very fast) for air and then miserably drifts to the bottom head-first into the gravel. Looking pretty grim. The only thing I did was add treated water and a tiny bit of melafix (as he had not been treated the last couple days).

Here are the details i can provide:
-Transfered fish 3 hours to new home. New water introduced with a 50/50 mix of store bought drinking water and well tap water (the well water just checked out ok with the lfs)
-Divided tank with Flash and Cam got re-made with gravel instead of marbles. The divider got jarred and the I came to see the aftermath of the fight (only 10 minutes or so).
-Same filter media is being used
-Both fish were acting VERRRRRY lethargic after the fight
-I left on a week long trip and came back to this
-Most importantly, my other betta fish in an identical tank is doing GREAT and making more bubblenests than ever

I took all the gravel out and washed it A LOT under running water and tried again right before the trip thinking that there was a problem with the gravel.

They have been treated with melafix and show no signs of disease physically.

Flash is now being floated in a 1 gallon gold fish bowl that i just set up for him. i'm not going to treat with anything and praying that he is better by morning, but he is showing no signs of movement and his gills have been doing the "I'm not OK" movement for hours.

Right now I'm just looking for any opinion I can get on what is wrong and what I can do. Obviously if Flash rebounds in the small bowl, there is a problem with the divided tank. What could be the issue? I'm thinking Flash may be a little older than I thought and might have been overly stressed from the incident.

No water stats right now. Will have tomorrow.

edit: there are a lot of variables to work with here.... this is just my desperate attempt to save Flash

 

[ReMz]

Update:

One hour since moving Flash, he has become much more responsive. Still not "normal", but waaaaayyyyy better.

I guess this topic comes down to what could be wrong with my 5gal divided/filtered tank. Keep in mind that these two were living together GREAT before the move and I have a very happy betta in the same tank setup after the move.

Could it be that the tank is cycling with the marble to gravel change? I've never had a problem with a new betta in a completely new tank before......... so maybe I have been lucky in the past? Don't get me wrong, Flash might still be on his death bed (he is still sitting motionless at the bottom of the bowl).... but things seem improved in this short amount of time.

I'm thinking move the fish out into individual containers and get the water stats in the tank at this point. good idea or better advice?

 

[Chris5787]

The substrate change shouldnt make much of a difference as most of the benificial bacteria is in the filters, which you said you havent changed. Have they been left to run without fish present at all? Or even turned off for a day or more?

Whats the temperature of the tank?

 

[ReMz]

The substrate change shouldnt make much of a difference as most of the benificial bacteria is in the filters, which you said you havent changed. Have they been left to run without fish present at all? Or even turned off for a day or more?

Whats the temperature of the tank?

Filter in the "seemingly" problematic (not sure at this point tho) tank was drained and back in action within 4-5 hours with fish. The other tank went through the same process but did not have a substrate change. Only other difference is the fight that took place.

Temp is just a notch below 80 degrees Fahrenheit

quick edit: i know there was a power outage for a couple hours while i was on my trip. shouldn't have been a factor tho. problems were starting before that occurance.

 

[Chris5787]

Im not sure how long the filter needs to be turned off before the bacteria start dieing off in considerable numbers, but i would have thought it would take more than 5 hours, could be wrong though. Nothing wrong with temperature, probably nothing wrong with filter.

Could be a disease of some sort then, hopefully someone else will have seen these symptoms before and be able to advise you.

 

[ibbledibble]

if they are sitting on the bottom of the tank most of the time and are acting lethargic, it could be a bacterial infection, as that is the most common symptom i have seen of this. clamped fins are also often a sign of bacterial problems. although it is also a sign of other problems too. i always use "interpet anti internal bacteria", but as i assume you are in the states, Maracyn 1 and 2 are supposed to be good.

the problem with using melafix is that although it is antibacterial, it has been proven that it is effective against some forms of bacteria, does nothing against other forms, and actually FEEDS other types of bacteria, unfortunately, they have not researched which bacteria is effected in which way (and as home aquarists its very difficult for us to know what strain of bacteria we are treating anyway)

its possible that the low levels of bacteria were present in the well water (LFS tests wouldn't show that) but that only the two fish that had been in the fight were affected, due to the fight leaving them weaker and more stressed, and weakening their immune systems.

but having said that, i would still be inclined to move the fish into temporary accommodation, and thoroughly clean and disinfect the tank, decor/substrate and filter. although it will mean having to re-cycle the filter its better than having something nasty lurking in it. i use baby sterilizing fluid when cleaning tanks, and then overdose on water conditioner to wash it out well before leaving it to thoroughly drip dry.

hope that helps

 

[ReMz]

thanks for the response. the guy that i isolated isn't doing any better.

i could definitely see it being bacterial now that you mention it. unfortunately i don't have any of my maracyn or tetracycline with me here.... hopefully they will make it while i order some.

 

[ReMz]

Just found my tetracycline. anyone recommend this for treatment in this situation?

 

[ReMz]

Bump

Have been trying the tetracycline, but neither of the guys are too fond on eating it (not just picky but they are looking pretty bad at this point and not even eating regular food that often).

Here is my current treatment. Both in small tupperwares with a good dose of melafix (actually bettafix cuz the containers are so small). Trying to feed them the tetracycline...... assuming they pull thru long enough, i'll have the maracyin in a couple of days.

As an alternative to disassembling the entire tank and disinfecting, I've pulled the filter media and the heater and added a 5x dosage of melafix to the tank. Would adding quite a bit of chlorine and letting the tank sit for a few days... then drain the water and ad lots of water treatment work? I'm just not too thrilled on taking the whole tank apart, as I just did that about a week ago and i dont see a bacterial infection being that prevelent in the tank itself.

btw, thanks again for the advice ibble. My head was in a fog with the recent move and the trip or something. I had myself convinced that they were stressed from the fight and clean water would fix things. Good thing I asked for another opinion

 

[ibbledibble]

i would go with adding chlorine to the tank idea, and then WAY WAY OVERDOSE with water conditioner, just to make sure its all gone. it will probably work just as well this way as taking it apart to do it (i would remove any live plants beforehand though, as the chlorine will probably kill them)

i have never used a food based medication, especially as in my experience with bacterial infections they often seem to stop eating. hopefully things will start to clear up once you get the maracyn

good luck with it, got my fingers crossed for you.

 

[newfishy]

have you tryed soaking the medication food in some garlic juice and then feeding? fish like the taste and garlic has some antibacterial propertys of its own too.

hope your guys get better, its such tramma for the fish owner when we try so hard to save them.

 

[ReMz]

was gone for a "long weekend". before i left for my trip, my lsf owner gave me some expired bettamax (antibiotic) free of charge. i had no access to better meds, so i treated both fish b4 left. when i came back my "older fish" was dying and beyond recovery (will explain if you so inquire... but i promise he was miserable ). The little copper (Cam) was fully back to normal! That was a relief after the whole situation. I"ve been reallllllly sad about this whole bit, but thank you everyone for your input.

 

[liz2]

sometimes they just go, despite your best care. I am no good with cts, and my last one, had since before xmas, developed clamped fins, lethargic, he has clean water, heater, on one the bacterial meds but I am now leaving him to die in peace.....