Adding fish today, which type and how many should I add first?

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One of the primary reasons for doing a fishless cycle is that it allows one to stock a tank fully all at once. You just spent weeks cultivating enough bacteria to do this and now what you are asking is. "Should I stock like the tank is not yet fully cycled?"

Another advantage to adding more rather than fewer fish is that it will blunt aggression. This is the same reason for stocking more rather than fewer small fish. It spreads out aggressive behavior such that the same fish is not always getting beaten up. Also, when fish are new to a tank they are all working to settle in. When adding over time, this may give the first fish in the chance to believe it is their tank and they may be more belligerent towards the next additions.

Next, if one adds all the fish at once, there will be no need to quarantine new fish. They are all new at the same time. Experiend keepers know about the need to quarantine new additions before adding them to an established tank. How would you feel if the last fish you add has a disease showing no symptoms and it ends up wiping out the tank?

Finally, fully stocking a tank that has been properly cycled without fish means you should not see any ammonia or nitrite spikes when you add all the fish. But doing it slowly can mean this benefit has been lost and, if one is not careful, you get the very ammonia and nitrite spikes fishless cycling is designed to avoid.

Of course there are some fish which do better in just the reverse they need to be added later rather than all at the same time. But for the most part I have found adding more fish at one time tends to work better than a few at a time.

Next, cycling a planted tank is different than cycling one with no live plants. The reason is simple. Most of the bacteria one does develop when doing a fishless cycle will die off as live plants are added. This is because the plants use ammonia (as ammonium) much faster than the bacteria can use it. However, no matter how many live plants are in a tank, there will still always be some amount of nitrifying bacteria as well. Plants host bacteria. So one can have a heavily planted tank and still have some bacteria. On the other hand one can have a tank with no plants and bacteria does almost 100% of the ammonia and nitrite processing.

Finally, it is important to understand how the bacteria react when the amount of ammonia in a tank increases or decreases. The bacteria only reproduce to create greater numbers when there is more ammonia than they need. This in turn makes more nitrite and those bacreria will also increase their numbers. The total amount of nitrifying bacteria in any tanks depend on the amount of ammonia available. This works in both directions. If we have a fully cycled and fully stocked tank and we remove half of the fish load, over the next few weeks the amount of bacteria will shrink until what remains is what is needed to process the new lower ammonia loading.

All of this works on the individual level. Normally the bacteria reproduce at a rate commensurate with the ammonia load. As one cell dies another one divides and the number remain fairly constant. If the ammonia level increases, more cells will divide than die, and the total numbers go up. This is also how they tend to change where they live in a tank.

If we get lazy and fail to clean a filter, as it begins to clog the bacteria living there get less flow and thus less "food." They will reproduce more slowly. However, since the ammonia loading in the tank has not changed, bacteria elsewhere where circulation is better will reproduce faster. The result is fewer are in the filter and more are elsewhere such that the total remains fairly constant. Because the bacteria need "room service", they tend to live in the greatest numbers where ever that is the best.

When planning a a tank with live plants it is generally best to plant first, let the plants settle in and then worry about the need for any cycling. If one plants heavily enough one can do a silent cycle. This is basically a fish in cycle with plants. So the ability of the plants to handle ammonia becomes the primary filtration for this. Yes, one still has bacteria and as the plants grow and are able to handle more ammonia, the bacteria will also reproduce some. However, the amount of ammonia one should add when there are plants in a tank is less than we would add were there are no live plants involved.

One last observation which most folks do not really consider. Under optimal conditions the ammonia bacteria can double in about 8 hours and the nitrite ones in about 11. There is no way a plant can double in mass in that time. So if the ammonia in a tank increases, the bacteria will react to this faster. But over time the plants will be stealing the bacteria's lunch and the plants will grow and the number of bacteria will decline. With plants, quickly increasing the amount of ammonia they can handle requires that one add more of them.
First, thank you for the help and reply (really appreciate it :) )
So I will put in as many fish in as I can, it was really interesting to read about the cleaning the filter information.
The problem for me is, the only fish I can get without specially ordering is the tetras unfortunately..
Should I wait until they have all the fish I want, or is that too long for the bacteria to go without any ammonium.
 
First issue is the number of fish in each species. To be at their best, fish that live in groups (I call them shoaling, some use schooling though that is technically different) need a decent sized group, and here 10-12 is what you should aim for. Some species need more, and a few need less, but generally this is a good number. Add all 10, 11 or 12 (or whatever) together at the same time. There are several reasons for this, but one that applies to all species is less stress. And as stress is what causes 90+% of fish disease in an aquarium, you go a long way toward healthy fish with more of the species.

Characins (tetras) and cyprinids (barbs) are shoaling fish and need the numbers. Cherry barbs and cardinal tetras (and green neon tetras, assuming this is the "blue/green") will be fine with 12.

The pygmy sparkling gourami will fare better with five rather than three. The males interact with clicking sounds and five is less likely to have issues. Must have floating plants (Water Sprite, Water Lettuce, Frogbit, or some stem plants--you want a good surface cover.
I see where you are coming from but my tank is only 110 litres so I don't know if I can fit that many sparkling Gouramis and barbs.
How many would you put in of the barbs and the sparkling Gouramis in a 110 litre tank to minimise stress for the fish :)
 
I see where you are coming from but my tank is only 110 litres so I don't know if I can fit that many sparkling Gouramis and barbs.
How many would you put in of the barbs and the sparkling Gouramis in a 110 litre tank to minimise stress for the fish :)

I was aware of the 110 liters (= 29 gallons) when I suggested the numbers. If this were a smaller tank, then leaving out one of the species in order to have sufficient of the other would be the course of action. But there is no issue with the numbers.

Are the dimensions 30 inches (75 cm) length by 12 inches (30 cm) width? This is the standard 29g.

Again, add all of the intended number for a species at the same time. You can add say all 10 or 11 or 12 tetras; if you have to wait for the barbs, fine, add the 10 or whatever when you can get them. And obviously the five gourami together. With live plants, you can forget cycling issues, as other member noted.
 
I was aware of the 110 liters (= 29 gallons) when I suggested the numbers. If this were a smaller tank, then leaving out one of the species in order to have sufficient of the other would be the course of action. But there is no issue with the numbers.

Are the dimensions 30 inches (75 cm) length by 12 inches (30 cm) width? This is the standard 29g.

Again, add all of the intended number for a species at the same time. You can add say all 10 or 11 or 12 tetras; if you have to wait for the barbs, fine, add the 10 or whatever when you can get them. And obviously the five gourami together. With live plants, you can forget cycling issues, as other member noted.
I ended up getting 5 cherry barbs for the time being, I couldn't find any cardinal tetras anywhere.
They are currently acclimating, I thought I would get them because I wasn't sure if I would be able to find them again.
I will get the other fish as soon as possible, thanks for the help!
 
Problem...
Turns out one of the fish had really ripped up fins and I didn't notice until I got into the car (it didn't look like fin rot, it was 100% nipped).
I woke up this morning and found her unfortunately dead, now there are only 4 (I'm planning to get 2 more on the weekend). I'm now noticing there are three that stick together and one that is getting bullied (fin nipping and chasing). She's being left out.
Is there anything I can do in the meantime to at least reduce the fin nipping and bullying towards the left out one?
 
Problem...
Turns out one of the fish had really ripped up fins and I didn't notice until I got into the car (it didn't look like fin rot, it was 100% nipped).
I woke up this morning and found her unfortunately dead, now there are only 4 (I'm planning to get 2 more on the weekend). I'm now noticing there are three that stick together and one that is getting bullied (fin nipping and chasing). She's being left out.
Is there anything I can do in the meantime to at least reduce the fin nipping and bullying towards the left out one?

I am trying to help you when I say that I explained previously how to acquire shoaling fish. Get the entire intended group at the same time and put them in the tank together. This is important for the fish.

Having said that, I don't understand cherry barbs being as aggressive as you indicate. One can expect this sort of tearing into each other with some cyprinids, such as loaches, but usually not with cherry barbs. Could be that something has stressed them, something before you even got them. Aggressive behaviour results from stress, and stress can occur from several things.

If one is being bullied, separate it. In a group of 10 or more, this would in all probability not be an issue, but again we have no knowledge of what may have taken place in the store before you got the fish.
 
I am trying to help you when I say that I explained previously how to acquire shoaling fish. Get the entire intended group at the same time and put them in the tank together. This is important for the fish.

Having said that, I don't understand cherry barbs being as aggressive as you indicate. One can expect this sort of tearing into each other with some cyprinids, such as loaches, but usually not with cherry barbs. Could be that something has stressed them, something before you even got them. Aggressive behaviour results from stress, and stress can occur from several things.

If one is being bullied, separate it. In a group of 10 or more, this would in all probability not be an issue, but again we have no knowledge of what may have taken place in the store before you got the fish.
I was going to get more than the intended 5 but no where had anymore than that unfortunately.
Your words have definitely helped a lot, thanks Byron :)
 
Did you inspect the fish at the store? it is unusual for a fish to get war wounds from the shop to your home.
 
Did you inspect the fish at the store? it is unusual for a fish to get war wounds from the shop to your home.
It is my first time getting fish from the pet store (I have gotten my goldfish at a koi and goldfish breeder), I don't think I inspected them well enough.
 
OK- here is the thing about the nitrifying bacteria. The reproduce by dividing and not by forming spores. So, two conditions can happen in relation to the things they need. One is that they amount is reduced. Think of a tank with 10 fish being fully stocked and then you remove 5 of them. The ammonia load is going to drop in half. If things are left this way the bacteria begin to die back. They do this by regulating reproduction. The size of the bacterial colony will shrink to be in balance with the bio-load. This works in the other direction. When there is more ammonia or nitrite than the bacteria beed, they will reproduce.

One the other hand, lets say in the above example all 100 fish are removed from the tank. This means there is nasically no ammonia being created. The bacteria can sense this (the saem applies to the nitrite ones), What they do to survive is they go into a state of dormanacy. If they are in good shape when they do, they can survive and be vivable for about 6 months. If the ammonia/nitrite returns withing that time frame, they wake up and go back to work pretty fast. If they are refrigerated this will extend the time period to about a year. In either case after the 6 or 12 months they are degrading.

Degrading means individual cells are dying. Enough of them will die such that when they revive they are no longer as many of them and they will not be 100% of what they were when they went dormant. This means they will have to reproduce if the ammonia coming back is at the same level as when the bacteria went to sleep.

What this means in your situation is that adding fish gradually means you are basically back to doing a fish in cycle. So here is how you should approach your stocking. You do not want to up the bio-load by mor then between 25% and 33%. This will hellp keep the ammonia and nitrite spikes pretty low and not a worry. So in your case you caould add one maybe two rasboras tops. You could add a similar bi-load of other fish which might be 2 or 3 small tetras. As you add fish the next addition can be larger since your stocking and bacteria have increased

Next, once you put in only the rasboras, you lose the benefit of the tank serving as Q for a full fish load. Now future additions should go through quarantine before you add them. However, the goal is to try and add as many initial fish as possible from the same water source. When you get fish from different sources that means what they may bring in with them can be different.

Plants can mitigate an ammonia/nitrite spikes. This especially true if the plants are settled in and showing growth. New plants can help if you see a spike, especially stem plants, which are cheaper and you can float if necessary.
 
OK- here is the thing about the nitrifying bacteria. The reproduce by dividing and not by forming spores. So, two conditions can happen in relation to the things they need. One is that they amount is reduced. Think of a tank with 10 fish being fully stocked and then you remove 5 of them. The ammonia load is going to drop in half. If things are left this way the bacteria begin to die back. They do this by regulating reproduction. The size of the bacterial colony will shrink to be in balance with the bio-load. This works in the other direction. When there is more ammonia or nitrite than the bacteria beed, they will reproduce.

One the other hand, lets say in the above example all 100 fish are removed from the tank. This means there is nasically no ammonia being created. The bacteria can sense this (the saem applies to the nitrite ones), What they do to survive is they go into a state of dormanacy. If they are in good shape when they do, they can survive and be vivable for about 6 months. If the ammonia/nitrite returns withing that time frame, they wake up and go back to work pretty fast. If they are refrigerated this will extend the time period to about a year. In either case after the 6 or 12 months they are degrading.

Degrading means individual cells are dying. Enough of them will die such that when they revive they are no longer as many of them and they will not be 100% of what they were when they went dormant. This means they will have to reproduce if the ammonia coming back is at the same level as when the bacteria went to sleep.

What this means in your situation is that adding fish gradually means you are basically back to doing a fish in cycle. So here is how you should approach your stocking. You do not want to up the bio-load by mor then between 25% and 33%. This will hellp keep the ammonia and nitrite spikes pretty low and not a worry. So in your case you caould add one maybe two rasboras tops. You could add a similar bi-load of other fish which might be 2 or 3 small tetras. As you add fish the next addition can be larger since your stocking and bacteria have increased

Next, once you put in only the rasboras, you lose the benefit of the tank serving as Q for a full fish load. Now future additions should go through quarantine before you add them. However, the goal is to try and add as many initial fish as possible from the same water source. When you get fish from different sources that means what they may bring in with them can be different.

Plants can mitigate an ammonia/nitrite spikes. This especially true if the plants are settled in and showing growth. New plants can help if you see a spike, especially stem plants, which are cheaper and you can float if necessary.
When you cycle a tank with ammonia, how do you know at the end of that process how many fish you can add to the tank? People say add all the fish to the tank at once, say thirty fish. How do you know you have enough bacteria for thirty fish? Another person may be adding fifty fish to the same volume of water. How do you calculate that?
 
The amount of ammonia used in fishless cycling - 3 ppm - will grow more bacteria than a sensibly stocked tank will need. There may not be enough for a grossly overstocked tank.
If those fifty fish represent a sensible stocking level, there will be enough bacteria while thirty of the same fish in the same tank would be understocking so some of the bacteria will slowly become dormant and eventually die.
But if thirty fish is a sensible stocking level, there would be enough bacteria but the tank with fifty fish would be overstocked so there may well be insufficient bacteria.
 
The amount of ammonia used in fishless cycling - 3 ppm - will grow more bacteria than a sensibly stocked tank will need. There may not be enough for a grossly overstocked tank.
If those fifty fish represent a sensible stocking level, there will be enough bacteria while thirty of the same fish in the same tank would be understocking so some of the bacteria will slowly become dormant and eventually die.
But if thirty fish is a sensible stocking level, there would be enough bacteria but the tank with fifty fish would be overstocked so there may well be insufficient bacteria.
So, this is all great. Now how many fish should I add to my aquarium? What is the formula you use to know how many fish I can add to a cycled tank at 3ppm ammonia?
 
You know very well there is no formula. There are too many variables for a formula, not least the size of the fish. Stocking a tank just on the number of fish is not the way to approach it. A given tank can hold many more neon tetras than it can discus, as an example.
 
You know very well there is no formula. There are too many variables for a formula, not least the size of the fish. Stocking a tank just on the number of fish is not the way to approach it. A given tank can hold many more neon tetras than it can discus, as an example.
I asked this question as this is the information someone new to the hobby would be asking and is actually the most important part of the equation if you are going to put all the fish in at once, which is what is recommended
 

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