Adding Dechlorinator.

[star4]

I have noticed recently that on this forum it has been advised to dose the whole tank with dechlorinator, not just the water being added if you fill via a hose.  
 
Were did this information come from please?

 

[KirkyArcher]

Lots of folk advocate this when filling their tank direct from a tap and many have convincing arguments as to why, I still dose the correct amount as stated on the bottle, the contents of lots dechlorinators when bought as powdered or concentrated forms is marked up "Toxic" and" harmful to wildlife" somewhere on the labelling, so what do you do remove chlorine to benefit fish health or expose them to more chemicals than necessary, again people have their opinions that you can safely overdose up to X5  of water conditioner. From my experience I can state that you can safely add the correct amount of conditioner for the volume of new water added directly via a tap and have healthy thriving fish and plants! (with absolutely no scientific proof what so ever )
 
However from thread http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/424950-water-conditioner/
 

When you add unconditioned water via a hose pipe, if you add  enough conditioner to the tank to treat only the new water, some of it will react with other chemicals in the tank so there won't be enough to treat the chlorine and the other chemicals. Some chlorine will not be removed. You have to add more than the amount to treat just the new water in these circumstances, and the usual 'rule' is to add enough for the whole tank volume not just the new water.
 
If using abucket to refill it is easier to add a bucket's worth of conditioner to each bucket.

 
 

I actually emailed Seachem about this a couple of years ago (I didn't keep the email, unfortunately!) and they confirmed that, if adding dechlor to the tank rather than a bucket, you should dose enough for the whole tank's volume, for exactly the reasons that essjay has mentioned.

 

[star4]

Thanks Kirky. That was the thread I was looking for.
 
I have always filled direct from the tap via a hose and always just dosed for new water, however, stupidly after reading this "cough cough new advice" on here, I did one tank dosing the whole tank yesterday, thankfully I did my other tanks as normal.  I have two dead angel fish and my breeding male aquidenes metae is dead this morning, the other fish are breathing heavily so doing another water change now.
 
I am livid with myself for blindly following this new myth started, there is no way I can replace the metae they are so rare!

 

[Ch4rlie]

That seems rather unusual actually.
 
I aslo use the tap fill via hose method as well and at the beginning I just dosed for the amount of water being replaced until realised best to dose entire tank volume rather than the replaced water volume, incidentally  I got this tip also from the very same thread topic of tank dosage of de-chlorinating tap water via hose or bucket method.
 
I can absolutely say I have had no trouble at all with either method and all tank stock seem none the wiser with whichever methiod I used.
 
So I find it unusual you have had fish perish as well as your metae, sorry for the loss, but not sure would blame it entirely on dechlorinator dosages as most brands like Prime state it is safe to does up to 5 times over, is it possible there may be other factors that may have contributed to the death of these fish?
 
Is it Prime you are using?
 
Also should mention, the first 2 bottles of de-chlor I used was Nutrafin Aqua Plus then decided to switch to Seachem Prime on recommendation from this forum.
 
I can tell you I was nervous switching to a different brand of de-chlorinator but all has worked out to no problems
(touch wood it stays that way!)

 

[star4]

I did 5 tanks yesterday, the angel tank was the last one, which I overdosed, the other 4 I did normally all the other tanks are fine. God only knows why I suddenly decided oh dear maybe I should dose the whole tank, I have never done before. I guess the "advice" was in the back of my mind. No doubt there will be someone along soon enough saying its my water stats, stocking or whatever other excuse, but the bottom line is I killed my fish by overdosing dechlorinator, the evidence is there on the dead bodies, open mouths, suffocation effects, inflamed gills. Now I have added fresh water the other fish are now breathing normally, I just hope the toxins in dechlorinator have not damaged them further.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Did the fish gasp or show symptoms soon after adding the de-chlor?
 
I ask because de-chlorinator acts instantly upon adding to water, so I would have thought the effects on fish stock would have been seen pretty soon after de-chlorinating the water.
 
Did you test the tank parameters for ammonia, nitrite etc after finding your fish died?
 
How much did you overdose the tank with de-chlorinator? just to the whole tank volume rather than your usual water percentage?
 
I would be surprised if de-chlor has harmful toxins to fish if not massively overdosed. (over 5x +).
 
This is all hypothetical by the way, not trying to find blame or anything, just truly interested in what happened exactly so just doing a process of elimination really.

 

[DrRob]

No doubt there will be someone along soon enough saying its my water stats, stocking or whatever other excuse, but the bottom line is I killed my fish by overdosing dechlorinator, the evidence is there on the dead bodies, open mouths, suffocation effects, inflamed gills. Now I have added fresh water the other fish are now breathing normally, I just hope the toxins in dechlorinator have not damaged them further.

 
Not from me, sounds far too much like a cause and effect issue. Proof may be harder to come by though. What dechlorinator are you using, and how much was the water change/effective overdose? If you're changing 20% and using prime then you're actually in a bottle recommended dose, which makes me even more curious.

 

[star4]

I use pond medic and have done for years, I did the usual 40% wc. I finished around 3pm fed the fish at 5 and noticed them flicking and breathing a little heavy, tested the water all was fine, raised the spray bar slightly for more surface agitation, although I had filled the tank to the normal level I knew something was not quite right. I turned out their lights at 10, one angel was hiding behind the plants, I didnt see the male metae, the other angel that died was actually inside the java fern. All 3 were upside down on the bottom this morning. 
 
Maybe it is only prime that can be overdosed safely!

 

[DaveIOW]

 

[Ch4rlie]

Have done a quick search on Pond Medic website, am assuming you use Kockney Koi Dechlorinator?
 
If so, this is quoted from the website:
Note the highlighted part I've done to show -
 
 
Kockney Koi Dechlorinator is an essential additive for all new pond water. This advanced product ensures complete conditioning of tap water by removing all harmful chlorine compounds. This product is completely harmless to all pond life, filters and other animal wild life.
Add 10ml per 750 Litres (150 Gallons) using the measuring cup provided. Treat all water entering the pond including topping up water. Never assume that tap water is safe. Always mix in a suitable container with some pond water and distribute evenly around the pond.
Calculate your pond volume accurately. To calculate your pond volume: Length x Width x Depth x 6 = Gallonage (all measurements are in feet). Monitor your fish during all treatments. Aeration is essential during treatment. If necessary, use an additional air pump. Filtration should be maintained at all times. Switch off Ultra Violet filters during treatment. Do not overdose. If in doubt seek advice from your dealer or alternatively use the Helpline. If you use rainwater to top up your pond, treat it first as it may be too acidic.
 
 
This may be why your de-chlorinator has had an affect on your stock 

 
It seems that Prime is fairly safe to overdose but maybe not your brand....

 

[star4]

Sadly that does seem to be the case that only prime is safe to overdose when using a hose to do a water change. For the sake of other peoples fish...
 
 
essjay, on 20 Sept 2013 - 5:18 PM, said:

When you add unconditioned water via a hose pipe, if you add  enough conditioner to the tank to treat only the new water, some of it will react with other chemicals in the tank so there won't be enough to treat the chlorine and the other chemicals. Some chlorine will not be removed. You have to add more than the amount to treat just the new water in these circumstances, and the usual 'rule' is to add enough for the whole tank volume not just the new water.
 
If using abucket to refill it is easier to add a bucket's worth of conditioner to each bucket.

 
this statement should be corrected!
 
It was a totally stupid mistake on my part, not researching myself and going on the "new advice" on the forum.

 

[KirkyArcher]

I to use Kockney Koi dechlorinator (though now as for the last 3 weeks in a pre diluted state) and when refilling via the hose I diffuse the flow with the use of a fry tank directing the water into that and letting it vent out of the louvred sides and into the tank, a tip I found on Youtube but since cant find, so unknown contributor I thank you

, this is where I pour in the dechlorinator as well to aid with distribution. Again I'd state/advise you to follow instructions on side of bottle that you intend to use not assume that all products are of equal properties and deviate from it at your own and your fishes risk 

 

[Ch4rlie]

Sadly that does seem to be the case that only prime is safe to overdose when using a hose to do a water change. For the sake of other peoples fish...
 
 
essjay, on 20 Sept 2013 - 5:18 PM, said:

When you add unconditioned water via a hose pipe, if you add  enough conditioner to the tank to treat only the new water, some of it will react with other chemicals in the tank so there won't be enough to treat the chlorine and the other chemicals. Some chlorine will not be removed. You have to add more than the amount to treat just the new water in these circumstances, and the usual 'rule' is to add enough for the whole tank volume not just the new water.
 
If using abucket to refill it is easier to add a bucket's worth of conditioner to each bucket.

 
this statement should be corrected!
 
It was a totally stupid mistake on my part, not researching myself and going on the "new advice" on the forum.

 
Don't be too hard on yourself, a mistake which I could have all too easily have made as well and I'd be kicking myself even harder than yourself (I am my own worst critic when I make mistakes!!)
 
But this is a valuable lesson though for everyone who reads this thread, and I have to agree that statement by essjay could be amended to state this is mainly for Prime De-chlorinator and instructions on all bottles of dechlorinator should be followed, as kirky said, deviate from that at your own peril....
 
Sorry for your losses and a hard lesson learned for you.

 

[star4]

I to use Kockney Koi dechlorinator (though now as for the last 3 weeks in a pre diluted state) and when refilling via the hose I diffuse the flow with the use of a fry tank directing the water into that and letting it vent out of the louvred sides and into the tank, a tip I found on Youtube but since cant find, so unknown contributor I thank you

, this is where I pour in the dechlorinator as well to aid with distribution. Again I'd state/advise you to follow instructions on side of bottle that you intend to use not assume that all products are of equal properties and deviate from it at your own and your fishes risk 

 
 
I diffuse mine too, I use a sucker clip (the type you stick pipework to the tank with) positioned on the glass at the end of the hose, if spreads the water over the tank, I can use a hose to fill sand substrate tanks too that way without it going everywhere.
 
I am sure essjay meant well with that post, but unfortunately it does come across that all hose filled tanks should be overdosed which is clearly not the case.

 

[snazy]

 Anyone can make a mistake like that and it's really horrible what happened.
  It seems that this Pond medic is a highly concentrated pond dechlorinator so the miniscule amounts you used to treat the replaced water was actually more than enough to treat the entire tank possibly. It's the same with "Pond" meds. They are way more concentrated than normal aquarium meds and even here I've seen comments about recommended dose of certain medication where in fact the OP may have the more concentrated version of the med and can potentially kill the inhabitants should they make the mistake to follow the "general" advise.
 
Dechlorinators tend to reduce the amount of oxygen in the tank and even Prime needs to be half dosed if the tank water temperature is at certain degree(can't quite remember what temperature exactly)