A Thew Questions About Filteration

[darrel69]

To begin with, i had two internal filters in my tank. One was the juwel built-in, which didn't get chance to mature as i replaced it with a Tetratec external within a week or so... The other is a fluval internal 3+ which is fully mature and has been for mnths & mnths, and i still have ....

1) I replaced the juwel built-in with the tetratec on the 5th jan 08, to let it run along side the fluval3+ to mature. Its been running ever since and i havn't touched it once, do you think it'll be fully mature now ??? I want to replace the fluval3+ with another external but not untill the tetratec is fully matured, incase i run into any problems. You cant be too careful with your bacteria!!

2) I ordered a Fluval 305 on monday and just recieved it this morning. This is what i plan to replace the internal with. If my tetratec is matured, i plan to do this tomorrow when i do my weekly water change. Is it just a case of replacing the sponge in the external with the sponge from my internal ? Sorry if it sounds like ...'Well duh'... but im scared of doing damage to my bacteria

3) Carbon. When i got my tetratec, it came with carbon bags and ive left them in there the whole time. Ive just read that carbon should be used only when removing medication ect from the water and only on a short term basis. I guess i better take it out then ?? also, ive got three carbon bags with my Fluval external, if im not to use them, what do i replace them with ??

4) Ceramic Rings. I thought these were used to spread the water flow out equally amongst the media ?? In the fluval 305, they're in the last baskets, just before the return pipe, and not the first, is this right ?? They're in the first basket in my tetratec ??

5) Also, for people who have all external's, were do you put your heater ?? Ive always had it opposite an internal so waters always hitting it to spread it round. But weres the best place to put it with only externals ??

6) Whats the best media to use in externals ?? I already use carbon, ceramic rings, bio balls, sponge, polyester pad... anything else ??

Thanks.

 

[5teady_2012]

Im not a user of external filters, but about the heater - cant u place it below where the pipe is sending water back in to the tank?

All the ones i have seen with external filters tend to put thier heaters right in the middle of the tank on a angle sort of how mine is in my sig.

Im sure the water flow off the externals will be circulating the water enough to spread the heat

 

[waterdrop]

re ceramic rings: Be sure to verify the direction of water flow through each of your externals, they might be opposite (others will probably know by heart betw tetratec & fluval 305) and that could account for the difference in order. Note that some ceramic rings are also high surface area and make good sites for bacteria anchoring, so water flow spread is not the only function it seems.

re what media to add to replace carbon: more bio media! Seachem Matrix, Eheim EhfiSubstrat & Substrat Pro are all competitive as far as maximum surface area for bacteria.

re carbon: reading TFF I soon concluded that carbon is a tool to be used in limited circumstances to remove certain chemicals from the water - The prime example I've read is for certain medications where you put them in for the treatment period and then need to get them out. To get the meds out of the water you put the carbon in for 2-3 days and then take it out and throw it away. Putting in carbon as a regular thing in a healthy tank just sucks up nutrients you may want left in the tank. Carbon left in after the 3-day point just releases the captured chemicals back out into the tank, they say. So the word is you have to use it with understanding.

re heater placement: 5teady's comments make sense. In the bigger picture it probably doesn't matter that much as the water circulation eventually will ineed even things out and fish like "slow" anyway for temp and pH. And also in the bigger picture a lot of fish kind of like temperature gradients - as long as its not to extreme I guess its like stepping out for a breath of fresh air!

(Experienced people please correct me, I'm just a well-meaning but talkative newbie!) ~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tobigara]

i doubt if i'm anymore experienced than waterdrop is but i think he said it pretty well

 

[darrel69]

Ok thanks guys. So ill get some bio media to replace the carbon with, but im setting it up tonight and all i have is some spare sponge at the mo, isn't sponge classed as bio-media ?? anyway ill use that for time being...

ill do what 5teady sugested with the heater, thanks

also im just thinking, the media im putting in my new filter from my old filter (which is sponge), weres the best place to put it ??? in with the new sponge ?? or with the rings maybe ?? ... reguarding that this media is my best matured media at the moment and i want to put it in the best possible place.

thanks.

 

[backtotropical]

1) I replaced the juwel built-in with the tetratec on the 5th jan 08, to let it run along side the fluval3+ to mature. Its been running ever since and i havn't touched it once, do you think it'll be fully mature now ??? I want to replace the fluval3+ with another external but not untill the tetratec is fully matured, incase i run into any problems. You cant be too careful with your bacteria!!

Hi Darrel,

The Tetratec is probably fully mature by now. This should cause you no problems when swapping the Fluval 3+ for the 305.

2) I ordered a Fluval 305 on monday and just recieved it this morning. This is what i plan to replace the internal with. If my tetratec is matured, i plan to do this tomorrow when i do my weekly water change. Is it just a case of replacing the sponge in the external with the sponge from my internal ? Sorry if it sounds like ...'Well duh'... but im scared of doing damage to my bacteria

I would recommend that you should leave all the media from the external in there (other than the carbon as Waterdrop has explained), and try to find a space to fit in the media from the 3+. Just set up the 305 and just before switching on, take the media out the 3+ and chuck it into the external. Keep the media out of water for as short a time as possible. Don't think about cleaning the old media, doesn't matter how dirty it is, just fire it in.

3) Carbon. When i got my tetratec, it came with carbon bags and ive left them in there the whole time. Ive just read that carbon should be used only when removing medication ect from the water and only on a short term basis. I guess i better take it out then ?? also, ive got three carbon bags with my Fluval external, if im not to use them, what do i replace them with ??

The carbon in tour Tetratec is most likely exhausted and you are risking it leaching impurities back into the water. I'd remove it asap. Replace it with coarse sponge or ceramic rings. Same applies in the Fluval, replace the carbon with coarse sponge or ceramic rings.

4) Ceramic Rings. I thought these were used to spread the water flow out equally amongst the media ?? In the fluval 305, they're in the last baskets, just before the return pipe, and not the first, is this right ?? They're in the first basket in my tetratec ??

As Waterdrop said, they flow directions through the externals may be different. You should check. You want to have the water flowing through the mechanical media first to trap debris, and then the particle free water passing through your biological media. This saves washing the bio-media too often. Sponge will act as both mechanical and biological. I use only sponge in my externals so don't need to worry about what order my media goes in.

5) Also, for people who have all external's, were do you put your heater ?? Ive always had it opposite an internal so waters always hitting it to spread it round. But weres the best place to put it with only externals ??

If you can place your heater in the path of the outflow from the return pipe, great. If not, it doesn't really matter too much so long as there is enough flow in the tank (which there will be with 2 externals running). The thing to avoid is putting your heater vertical as the heated water rises up the heater and this gives the thermostat the impression that the tank is warmer than it actually is, so the heater won't come on. Try to put it at an angle as 5teady said.

6) Whats the best media to use in externals ?? I already use carbon, ceramic rings, bio balls, sponge, polyester pad... anything else ??

All these things are useful (again carbon has already been covered).

re ceramic rings: Be sure to verify the direction of water flow through each of your externals, they might be opposite (others will probably know by heart betw tetratec & fluval 305) and that could account for the difference in order. Note that some ceramic rings are also high surface area and make good sites for bacteria anchoring, so water flow spread is not the only function it seems.

Agreed about the flow directions as stated above.

The main function of ceramic rings is biological filtration. They do also encourage even water flow which helps with the bio-filtration. Sponges used biologically can be prone to "tunnelling" which is where the sponge will clog and the water will take the path of least resistance through the sponge, resulting in good flow through only part of the media. I personally am not convinced that ceramic rings are any better, but thats a personal opinion.

 

[backtotropical]

re what media to add to replace carbon: more bio media! Seachem Matrix, Eheim EhfiSubstrat & Substrat Pro are all competitive as far as maximum surface area for bacteria.

Agreed, although I don't think there is any need to spend lots of money on gimmick bio-media. A simple filter sponge will do a good job and only costs pennies.

re carbon: reading TFF I soon concluded that carbon is a tool to be used in limited circumstances to remove certain chemicals from the water - The prime example I've read is for certain medications where you put them in for the treatment period and then need to get them out. To get the meds out of the water you put the carbon in for 2-3 days and then take it out and throw it away. Putting in carbon as a regular thing in a healthy tank just sucks up nutrients you may want left in the tank. Carbon left in after the 3-day point just releases the captured chemicals back out into the tank, they say. So the word is you have to use it with understanding.

The lifespan of carbon will depend on the saturation of the water. It will last longer in lightly saturated water than in heavily saturated. I would usually say 2 - 4 weeks, but each circumstance is different and theres no real way to measure without some expensive equipment. The only time i would use carbon is to remove meds, and even then, i usually just do water changes instead.

re heater placement: 5teady's comments make sense. In the bigger picture it probably doesn't matter that much as the water circulation eventually will ineed even things out and fish like "slow" anyway for temp and pH. And also in the bigger picture a lot of fish kind of like temperature gradients - as long as its not to extreme I guess its like stepping out for a breath of fresh air!

Agreed.

Ok thanks guys. So ill get some bio media to replace the carbon with, but im setting it up tonight and all i have is some spare sponge at the mo, isn't sponge classed as bio-media ?? anyway ill use that for time being...

Sponge is fine. As i said above, sponge will act as mechanical and biological media so kills 2 birds with 1 stone. The only comprimise is having to wash your media more often than if you had seperate mechanical media. Not a big issue really. In my filters with only sponge, you're lucky if i wash the sponges every 6 months.

also im just thinking, the media im putting in my new filter from my old filter (which is sponge), weres the best place to put it ??? in with the new sponge ?? or with the rings maybe ?? ... reguarding that this media is my best matured media at the moment and i want to put it in the best possible place.

Are you referring to putting the sponge from the 3+ into the 305? If so, i covered this above. It is best to put it so that the water is forced to go through it rather than around it, but not absolutely necessary. So long as it's in there, i wouldn't worry.

Hope this helps you.

Cheers

BTT

edit: sorry, couldn't fit it all in one post!!

 

[chicklette]

The filter should be starting to mature. Check the filter media and if it is sort of mucky looking it is starting to mature. Yes, what you want is any matured media from your existing filter. The sponges are the best. Using carbon is a personal preference. The carbon dies within two weeks. Then it needs to be replaced. Personally I don’t use carbon; I like to use the sponges for lots of good bacteria on it. So you can replace them with sponges. There are also rings for good bacteria you could use that along with the sponges. Question number 4 I’m not familiar with so I don’t know. I put my heater in the middle of the tank at the back in between my two filters. That way it distributes heat evenly.

 

[darrel69]

Thanks for all the info guys. Everythings sorted & running smoothly... Thanks