A Fishless Cycle Question?

[eb2]

I started out doing the cycle from scratch..thenI added some mature sponge, within about 24 hours, my nirite is 0
nitrates were somewhere between 40 and 80 on the api color chart(red)
with the ammonia added to around 4, the ammonia dropped to .25 within 24hours
I thought it took longer for the bacteria to migrate... how do I make sure it's ready to put in the tank it's meant for? and how much ammonia do I add to keep it going empty? also this filter is running without any carbon, frankly my water stayed clear, but the lfs guy did tell me that I should, use carbon with the fish
but also sd it's just to take away the smell, and there isn't currently a smell? so what is correct use of carbon, and for that matter zeolite if you use all three like my aquarclear?
ps a 70% water change brought the nitrates down to 10 and how hi should I let those stay in an empty tank?
thanks for the help

 

[waterdrop]

No surprise its that fast, even a little piece of mature media is operational right away and can process a surprising amount of ammonia and nitrite. Most here say you should feed it about 4ppm per 24 hours I believe, to keep it ready for a full load of fish.

(The bacteria don't need to migrate, the ones attached to that little piece of old sponge are doing the work. From such a mature start though, they should quite rapidly populate the larger newer sponge I believe.)

There are 3 types of filtration you can do in a filter: mechanical, biological and chemical. Mechanical removes debris. Biological is the mature bacteria media you already know about and the last is chemical, which is usually only used in special cases. Carbon (aka activated charcoal or active carbon) is the most common media for chemical filtration. Carbon is most commonly only needed to clear up medications after they are used and even then is only left in the filter for 3 days to a week (its only effective for about that long.) Its not needed at all for normal use and the space in the filter is better used for more bio-filtration capacity. Save your carbon in your cabinet for use after a medicinal episode, the lfs loves to sell it because it makes money. There are special clarity issues where carbon can be used but these are relatively rare.

Zeolite is even more unnecessary than carbon, another way for lfs to make money. It is marketed as yet another way to try to remove ammonia from an aquarium by people who do not understand the nitrogen cycle. It makes a mess out of the normal cycling procedures that are taught on this site. (Members please correct me if this should be stated differently.) Again, you should not be afraid to use this filter volume for more bio or mechanical (say, poly-floss) media.

Finally, re the nitrates, obviously 40ppm or below is considered fine for a running tank with a cycled filter. But I believe you are asking about them in a fishless cycle and there the answer is more complicated. You don't want to do too many water changes during a fishless cycle because they can slow down the process but on the other hand there is some speculation that very high nitrites and nitrates might be a slow down to nitrite-oxidizing bacterial development themselves! So when you do have to get rid of them it might be a good thing. If your other fishless parameters are ok I'd leave well enought alone.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[eb2]

No surprise its that fast, even a little piece of mature media is operational right away and can process a surprising amount of ammonia and nitrite. Most here say you should feed it about 4ppm per 24 hours I believe, to keep it ready for a full load of fish.

(The bacteria don't need to migrate, the ones attached to that little piece of old sponge are doing the work. From such a mature start though, they should quite rapidly populate the larger newer sponge I believe.)

There are 3 types of filtration you can do in a filter: mechanical, biological and chemical. Mechanical removes debris. Biological is the mature bacteria media you already know about and the last is chemical, which is usually only used in special cases. Carbon (aka activated charcoal or active carbon) is the most common media for chemical filtration. Carbon is most commonly only needed to clear up medications after they are used and even then is only left in the filter for 3 days to a week (its only effective for about that long.) Its not needed at all for normal use and the space in the filter is better used for more bio-filtration capacity. Save your carbon in your cabinet for use after a medicinal episode, the lfs loves to sell it because it makes money. There are special clarity issues where carbon can be used but these are relatively rare.

Zeolite is even more unnecessary than carbon, another way for lfs to make money. It is marketed as yet another way to try to remove ammonia from an aquarium by people who do not understand the nitrogen cycle. It makes a mess out of the normal cycling procedures that are taught on this site. (Members please correct me if this should be stated differently.) Again, you should not be afraid to use this filter volume for more bio or mechanical (say, poly-floss) media.

Finally, re the nitrates, obviously 40ppm or below is considered fine for a running tank with a cycled filter. But I believe you are asking about them in a fishless cycle and there the answer is more complicated. You don't want to do too many water changes during a fishless cycle because they can slow down the process but on the other hand there is some speculation that very high nitrites and nitrates might be a slow down to nitrite-oxidizing bacterial development themselves! So when you do have to get rid of them it might be a good thing. If your other fishless parameters are ok I'd leave well enought alone.

~~waterdrop~~

great, thanks!!! you know my aquaclear, you're saying I could I fill it up with sponge and or floss? or keep using the carbon and zeolite that go with it.? I 've never had any trouble with the tank, using the media it comes with(replacing it as directed) although I have declined to ever replace the sponge. I currently have an extra 3/4 sponge in there for my fishless project, a geririgged pantyhose with some black diamond in it about half the size of the carbon replacements,that fits next to the extra sponge, and zeolite on top... some lfs told me zeolite holds good bacteria?? I only hesitate to eliminate either the carbon or zeolite because "if it ain't broke", and I've only been keeping fish the last 6 months of my life. Also, what do you know about that reddish lava rock for growing good bacteria?? or not? any special way to use it, I picked up a few lumps but haven't put in any tanks yet??? is it strictly decor or could you put it in a filter ...what other DIY modifactions do people make to their systems?

 

[waterdrop]

You watchin the sox and the yankees too?

 

[eb2]

You watchin the sox and the yankees too?

very funny, if I followed baseball I'd actually get that one?. seriously ditch the carbon and xeolite or just keep it, I've got plenty on hand. anyway, I float water sprite and in my tank to keep the algae down, but it doesnt stay very nice and full ** would you use a plant food?