55 Gallon Fowlr

[Justin1989]

Unfortunately due to money restriction; I have to buy everything in pieces. I cant just toss out around 600-800 like that even though I would love to. I have a 15 gallon freshwater tank which I am making into a quarantine tank. The gravel and all will be removed and it will be thoroughly cleaned. The filter media will be replaced. My main question is if I buy a canister (I have been told by the two local fish stores this is the best case scenario to use considering I do not plan on having corals and so forth; am interested in the Marinelan Magnum Pro System; for around the same price the turnover rate is higher than most canisters) and fill my 15 gallon with saltwater (live sand) and have it filtering the 15 gallon. will there be any problems with this? I know this is no quick task; and do not plan on rushing it. I hope by the end of the month to have the tank up and filtering with live sand (possibly live rock, maybe not by the end of the month though)

 

[rabbut]

Hi,

Live sand is a rip off. Anything in it that may have been live will be dead and festering away in the bag after a few month in a warehouse and a few weeks on a shop shelf, so you are best starting with plain old argonite sand and working from there I read and may miss-understand, but you are tinking of using sand as filter media? There is no reason why this won't work as a bio-filter, but sand is a royal PITA to clean of ditritus that will collect in it when used as a filter media. When ditritus builds up in a marine tank, Nitrate climbs rapidly, something that you want to avoid

Is the canister for the QT tank, or the main one?

For your long-term FOWLR, I'd actually advise against a canister set-up for bio-filtration. They are high-maintanace in the marine application, and there are better ways of filtering, i.e. using the Live Rock that goes into your FOWLR tank None the less, they can be good for a QT system where you may need to treat for disease, or for chemical filtering with Phosban or similar. Treating a tank with LR in is dodgy, so best avoided where possible

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Justin1989]

Sorry for any confusion I have caused and I may be under some miss-understanding myself. First off; I understand LR and LS can be used for biological filtration; however there is there any mechanical filtration? I am at a concern where if I am using sand; I honestly do not know where to begin as far as cleaning goes. I have a gravel vacuum; however can that be used? My whole point in the process of this canister is because the biological filtration on this setup is two bio-wheels. Again I know they aren't the best; however in combination with LR and LS I don't see how it would do any harm. The current filters I have now get pretty dirty in my freshwater tank (granted no lr or ls of course); so I don't see how not having any filter would be ok.

My point in my original post was to have the canister filters bio-wheels basically jump started on the cycling process. I would have the canister filter setup on my 15 gallon (no fish; just ammonia added and being filtered with canister) tank; running until i get the rest of my equipment for the 55 gallon.

Once my tank is actually setup (no fish; but skimmer, filter, heaters, lighting and so forth) I will be adding live rock; and allowing the tank to run and settle assuring that the cycling process is complete.

Also that is the first I have ever been told Live sand will basically be useless Kinda at a loss here; I always considered sand better looking though lol.

 

[rabbut]

Right, LR (Live Rock) is the biological filter in a Marine tank It is arguably the most efficient biological filter that you can get, and just needs plenty of flow to work. The way I ran mine before adding corals was with 1KG of LR per 10l of water, and then two good water pumps to push flow arround the tank. After that I added a DIY protien skimmer and that was that, all my hardware. Any filter in a marine tank, mechanical, biological or chemical, will become a major PITA to maintain, requiring weekly cleaning to prevent it becomming a Nitrate factory, due to all the dirt collected in it. Adding a filter won't do any harm to a system, but it does substancially increase the ammount of work you must do on the system for no benefit But were does all that dirt go if you don't have a filter? The CUC (Clean Up Crew)

LS (Live Sand) is only live due to bacteria and other life within it. Most of this life requires oxygen and "tank temperature" to live. A Warehouse is a hot stuffy place that kills it off due to excess heat, tranist often subjects the live stuff to excess cold and there is no air getting into a sealed bag. This all adds up to the live stuff in the sand dieing and the LS becomming Dead Sand. Plain argonite will seed from your LR, and become LS just as quick as it would take the LS to re-seed from the LR, but it costs you half as much

The bacteria that filter marine tanks is different to that that filters FW (Fresh Water), so unfortunately, the filters running on your FW tank are not pre-seeded

The LR will deal with much of the "ditritus" as the dirt in your filter is refured to. What the LR does not get, the CUC will get and reduce into lesser substances. I don't run mechanical filters on mine, and my water is always gin clear

It took me a long while to get to grips with Marines. Most of what us salties do is the opposit of FW. No "filters" in FW is a crime, but the norm in SW. 20X an hour flow through pumps in a FW tank would be frowned uppon in many FW set-ups, but relatively weak flow in SW. A protien skimmer, what is one of those cry the FW people, an optional but highly recomended marine-specific type of filter reply the SW folk Anyhow, you get to drift

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Justin1989]

Alright; so cutting out the filter.

Any special power heads anyone recommends? I have seen these power heads in a few tanks which seem to work nice. They are also at our LFS.

I will also take your advice on the arganite sand. And from your 1kg of LR for 10L of water; is around 2lb's of LR for 2 gallons of water. So would you recommend getting around 55lb's minimum of LR? ( I can feel the hole in my wallet :'( lol)

As for beginning what would you recommend as for putting in the tank? I do not plan on putting any fish until the cycling process is finished. However the fish I wanted most likely aint gonna happen 55's are slightly to small for Picasso Triggers from what I'm hearing. (sigh) In all actuality I'm not really talking about fish; however I know you were talking about a CUC; and honestly have heard very very little about them or what is recommended.

 

[rabbut]

Yes, 1lb per gallon is the other guideline, and the Koralia 4's are supposed to be good. I have Tunze nanostreams, that are a competitors equivelant, and they are also nice pumps

Realy, you want to confirm your hardware choices after choosing your disired livestock I'd post a list of the stock you want in Marine Chat (I can't realy help with that and this isn't realy the section for talking about stocking ) and then when you have your stock worked out, go back to looking at the guidelines and altering as nessisary. There are a few puffers, and possibly smaller triggers that may work (can't think of any triggers now like ), but they will almost always go after mobile inverts (the CUC...) and corals...

It does not realy matter which you add first, re CUC or fish, just so long as you don't add too many fish at once and you build your stock slowly. There is a saying, perfection comes with time, disaster with speed

All the best, and sorry for the slow responce
Rabbut

 

[Justin1989]

Hello again; after buying the stand and comparing the tank kit to a 90 gallon tank itself (tank kit came with hood, lights, 55 gallon tank, heater and filter) I have decided to buy a 90 gallon tank instead of the 55 gallon kit. The dimensions I believe are 48"x18"; height I'm not sure of. I do plan on using LR of course; however here is where I come into an issue. The CUC will most likely not survive a trigger and other carnivore fish. So my question is would I need a filter? I have been told I do not need a filter as long as I have plenty of LR; but that was based off a 55 gallon with a CUC. Is a sump required?

 

[rabbut]

If you are keeping preds, ideally you will have 1KG of LR per 10l of water, 10-20X an hour turn-over for things like Loinfish e.t.c, or 20-30X an hour for anything without long flowing fins and that dose not mind a current, a sump and an "overkill" skimmer. "Filters" are not needed in the FW sence of the word, but a sump technically is a type of filter. For a messy pred tank though, you can consider the skimmer essential, and the sump highly recomended

 

[Justin1989]

unfortunately lol; I was told by the LFS over the phone that the 90 gallon tank would be the same dimensions as stand I bought; I doubted it however he ensured me so I believed him. I get there, and of course they are not. No biggy; saves me money I suppose. So back to the 55 gallon tank.

EDIT: Would 300GPH in a overflow be sufficient? Or should I go with the 600GPH?

 

[Justin1989]

Well its been a while since I have posted here, so I will let everyone know where I am at

Equipment:

55 Gallon stand (oak)
55 Gallon tank (all glass)
Coralife Super Skimmer 65 (will be upgraded, such a waste now. hmm)
Hydor L40 pump (inline, closed circuit)
Koralia #4 and a Koralia #1 (Yes I was advised from here to not get a #4, however I have been informed from reefcentral.com by multiple people it would be ok at long as sand wasn't blowing around; which it's not)
Lifegard custom flow kit hooked up to the Hydor L40
Current Nova Extreme Pro 48" (324Watts; 3 actinics and 3 10,000K)
44 lbs of Fiji LR (will be adding more)
80LBs of Live Sand (LFS messed up on this order and I realized it after I had it home. She only rung up 1 bag out of the 4 I bought)
Digital Thermometer
200 Watt heater

First things, here is the stand I bought. Now that I look back on it; I ask myself why didn't I just get bigger

I had all the salt water mixed in a 45 gallon trash can in my closet (haha i know right) Pumped the water out of the trash can into the tank; hooked up the skimmer and koralia to get them running.

The next step was installing the background

At this point I didnt do anything for about a week; then I finally went and bought 80lb's of sand and a bag of salt. I had taken most of the water out of the tank, then put the sand in. I was told there was no need to rince it since I was just starting this tank; however I some times wish I did at this point. **** LFS.

After about 2-3 days the water cleared up

At the point of putting the sand in I had returned my Seaclone 100 and traded it out for a coralife superskimmer. After about another week I ordered the LR and Lights. They both came on the same day (w00t). The piece on the left was directed by my mom to be stood up. Its how she liked it, so I left it. Waiting to order more.

After that was done, I tested my lights. After regaining my vision, I installed them on my tank.

Like i said before hopefully I get a bigger stand or a custom sump for this thing. It will look much better.

Parameters:

Day 2

PH : 8.2-8.3
Ammonia : .50-1.0
Nitrite : 4+?
Nitrates : 20-40

I'm gonna allow it to stabilize more, and purchase a few snails/hermits. I don't wanna buy to many yet. Also the LR.

Day 3 parameters:

Same result, was having a very hard time distinguishing nitrites from 1.0 or 5.0+

Day 4 parameters:
Ammonia : .50-1.0
Nitrites : around 1.0 (verified; had father look at it to compare)
Nitrates : definitely around 20 now.

--------------------------------

New stand will be built soon enough

48"x18"x32"

Will have 2 cabinet doors on the front, along with doors on the side to put in the sump.

Will be buying a 20-30 gallon glass aquarium for the sump; will install the baffles myself. The Super Skimmer is quite big; 4.25"x5.50"x20.75" (maybe its just me lol)

I plan on having a refuge with a 5"-8" layer of sand to help with nitrates.

stand template

I am also questioning on my return from the sump to display tank.I will be using a Mag 7; the overflow is fit for 600gph; unless I step it up to 800gph. The mag 7 will work for the 600gph overflow however if using the 800gph overflow I would upgrade to the mag 9.5. Saves me some money using the 600gph overflow along with the mag 7.

The overflow is CPR CS90 (600gph)
Return pump Mag 7 (700gph; 480 at 4ft, estimating 440-460 at 53" high for return pvc. My return would have to either have 2 90 degree elbow, or 2 45 degree elbows; now I know 45 degree elbows are less restrictive but would I still get sufficient flow from the MAG 7? Or should I upgrade to the Mag 9.5 using a ball valve to restrict flow? I can also use vinyl hose; however just looking for recommendations.

Possibly just using flexible hosing for overflow, unless recommended against?

Return pump will have 1/2" pvc, check valve; possibly ball valve (would this be needed?)

using the mag 7 which has a MPT outlet, so using a Female adapter fitting to slip would work correct? Sorry i am not the best at plumbing. I would then use a 45 degree elbow; another piece of PVC which would leave the PVC at a 45 degree angle exiting the back of my stand (if it will work properly); then adding another 45 degree elbow to direct the PVC pipe directly up. Then using a 90 degree elbow from slip to female adapter; which connects to a male 1/2" loc-line adapter. Sound good?

Then when using slip fittings I know of two items we have here in the house used to clean the end of pvc pipes, then glue to seal the pvc pipes. Maybe these aren't aquarium safe; advice here?

CPR Over flow (CS90)
Tom Aquatics Aqua lifter pump
Aqua Lifter pre-filter (stops clogs)
mag 7
female adapter to slip fitting
45 degree elbows, (2) slip fittings.
90 degree elbow : from slip to female adapter
Loc-Line 1/2" ball socket with Male connector
Loc-Line 1/2" ball socket flexible tube
Loc-Line 1/2" flare
Ball Valve 1/2"
check valve 1/2"

As far as I can tell, the only plumbing I am missing is the actual PVC piping itself from the list.

Anything I am missing?

looking at close to $300 for plumbing lol. I think I will stick with a glass aquarium of 20-30 gallons.

 

[rabbut]

I personally wouldn't use an overflow box, too un-reliable for me to be comfy with. I'd have the tank drilled if getting a sump

Good call on swaping the Seaclone skimmer, the Rio pumps fitted to them are prone to failing in a way that nukes the tank...

Looks good other than that

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Justin1989]

having the tank drilled, is almost impossible due to the fact it is up and completely running. I made the mistake of not buying a predrilled tank, and the mistake of not buying a bigger tank lol. Any how, this is why I chose the CPR CS90 overflow. The black top reduces algae; and uses the aqua lifter pump to remove all air bubbles from the overflow. I have heard of the issue of it getting clogged (the aqua lifter) and losing a siphon. most have solved this by simply using the pre-filter which is like $3, and also doing weekly maintenance on it just to ensure it is not clogged. Believe me, that is one of my worries as far as using an overflow.

The seaclone skimmer I had came with a maxi-jet skimmer. however it was putting way to many micro bubbles into the main tank. I unfortunately could of got a much better deal online for a much better sump then the super skimmer from coralife (sigh )

EDIT: Have changed my mind on the CPR CS90 overflow and have chosen to go with lifereef; i have heard nothing but bad things about the CPR's on reefcentral, and nothing but good on the lifereef's.

 

[rabbut]

IMR, all overflows are good at breaking their siphons in a power outage situation.

You can drill a tank when full (well nearly, you need to drop the water level a tad) though, provided it is not toughened glass.

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Justin1989]

IMR, all overflows are good at breaking their siphons in a power outage situation.

You can drill a tank when full (well nearly, you need to drop the water level a tad) though, provided it is not toughened glass.

All the best
Rabbut

How would some one go about drilling the tank, and also how would you design the overflow for it?
Second, the only part tempered is the bottom piece of glass.

 

[ben1987]

that scape looks good, like the rock to the left. The tall one