5 Weeks Into Cycle ( Water Change?)

[Bill1976]

Ok, so I'm 5 weeks into cycling 2 tanks, and my ammonia is not dropping

Tank 1 60 litres

Ammonia 1.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
Ph 6 or below more likely


Tank 2 200 litres

Ammonia 2.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
Ph 6 or below more likely

Ph from tap is 7/7.2

Just been reading a sticky in this section and it suggests a water change if ph is low during cycling, I'm thinking this is the stage I'm at now, the cycling seems to have stalled after starting off very well, both tanks have Java fern and some wood in them.

Just to add, fish less cycling with household ammonia dosing upto 3ppm

Any advice?

Thanks

 

[Essjay]

Is your tap water soft? You can find that information somewhere on your water company's website. If it is soft it is likely your KH will also be low. UK water companies don't usually give the alkalinity of your water anywhere on their websites, but just in case you do find this term on yours, alkalinity is what water companies call KH. If you have a KH tester, that will show if your KH is low - or get your tap water tested at a shop.
 
KH buffers water against changes in pH and if you don't have much in your tap water there is very little to stop the pH from falling very low.
 
During cycling, the answer is to add some bicarbonate of soda. It comes in small tubs and is found in the home baking section of the supermarket - there might already be some in your kitchen. It is safe to use this during fishless cycling as there are no fish in the tank, and it will be removed when you do the big water change at the end of the cycle. Bicarb will also raise the pH.
 
The member who wrote the fishless cycling method on here (TwoTankAmin) also said about bicarbonate of soda

 
1/2 teaspoon per 100 Liters raises the KH by about 1 dH

 
I would try 1 x 5ml spoonful in the 60 litre tank and 3 in the 200 litre tank and see if that helps. You can always add more if it proves necessary. Take a bit of water out of each tank, dissolve the bicarb in that then pour the water back into the tank.

 

[Bill1976]

Hi, yes my tap water is very soft, I recently found this information out ( or rather Byron did ) via another thread in the new to the hobby section ( titled low ph ). I have added the bicarbonate of soda, and the ph levels have risen in both tanks

Tank 1

7.4 ph
Ammonia has dropped to around 0.5 ( but I did not dose it with ammonia yesterday as I was out all day for my birthday, drunk! )

Tank 2

7.6 ph
Ammonia 2

I'll keep monitoring it daily, and report back.

Thank you very much.

 

[Bill1976]

Just tested the water and ph is 7.2 in both tanks, ammonia is 0.75 in tank 1 and 1 in tank 2,so ammonia has dropped in both tanks, hopefully back on track.

 

[Essjay]

It looks like the bicarb is doing the trick. If you monitor your pH regularly you'll catch it straight away if it starts to drop again in either tank; if it does drop add a bit more bicarb.
 
When you do the big water change before getting fish, do as big a change as you can to remove the bicarb.

 

[Bill1976]

Thanks for the advice, when you say so as big a water change as possible, how much do you mean? 80%? Or more? Thanks

 

[Essjay]

I would change as much as you can, basically right down to the substrate. That will be easy enough with your 60 litre, but I do appreciate it won't be as easy on the 200 litre - I have a 180 litre tank so I do understand. If you can manage down to the substrate on the bigger tank, do that but if not, at least 80%. Bicarbonate of soda (sodium bicarbonate aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) is not found in any great amount in most natural water sources and fish have not evolved to cope with it, so the less there is the better when you get fish.

 

[Bill1976]

No probs, I'll get right down to the substrate on them both, and get plenty of buckets on the go, thanks

 

[Bill1976]

Not sure where the cycling process is upto now, ammonia is looking good in both tanks, Nitrite has risen in tank 2, and both tanks now have nitrate 0, I thought the only way of removing nitrates was with water changes?

Is everything still on track?

Tank 1 60 litres

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 7.6

Tank 2 200 litre

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 0
Ph 7.6

 

[Bill1976]

Good news!

Both tanks

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20

After doing a bit of searching regarding zero nitrates, it appears I wasn't shaking the test bottle enough prior to testing, so are we safe to say the tanks are cycled?

I won't be putting any fuss in till the weekend, so will keep checking the water.

A question regarding the big water change, do I do it now or just before I put fish in? Also I pressume I keep dosing ammonia till I get some fish?

 

[Essjay]

I would add another 3 ppm dose of ammonia to each tank and test again after 24 hours. If they show double zeros at that test, yes you can get fish. If not, you still have a way to go.
 
If you are indeed cycled, add 1 ppm ammonia every 2 to 3 days until you are ready to go fish shopping.
 
I would do the big water change either just before you go shopping, or the day before.
 
 
 
Ah yes, failure to shake the bottle is the major cause of inaccurate nitrate readings. In fact, shake it more than the instructions say before adding it to the test tube

 

[Bill1976]

Both results are zero again

Can I just ask why you suggest dropping the ammonia dose? Why do I not carry on dosing 3pm, just curious?
Both results are zero again

Can I just ask why you suggest dropping the ammonia dose? Why do I not carry on dosing 3pm, just curious?
Mmmmmm that post went a bit wrong!

 

[Essjay]

That's what TwoTankAmin says to do in his fishless cycling method on this forum
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
It's at the bottom of the method, just above the graph showing how ammonia, nitrite and nitrate behave during the cycle.

 

[Gruntle]

Adding 1ppm ammonia will keep the bacteria alive, and will reduce the amount of nitrates produced (compared to 3ppm, which was used during the cycling process to build up your bacteria colonies).
 
You're cycled now so you don't need to build your bacteria colonies further, so extra ammonia would just put more nitrate into the tank.
 
1ppm every 2 or 3 days will keep your bacteria alive until you get your fish.

 

[Bill1976]

That's what TwoTankAmin says to do in his fishless cycling method on this forum
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
It's at the bottom of the method, just above the graph showing how ammonia, nitrite and nitrate behave during the cycle.

Adding 1ppm ammonia will keep the bacteria alive, and will reduce the amount of nitrates produced (compared to 3ppm, which was used during the cycling process to build up your bacteria colonies).
 
You're cycled now so you don't need to build your bacteria colonies further, so extra ammonia would just put more nitrate into the tank.
 
1ppm every 2 or 3 days will keep your bacteria alive until you get your fish.

That's what TwoTankAmin says to do in his fishless cycling method on this forum
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
It's at the bottom of the method, just above the graph showing how ammonia, nitrite and nitrate behave during the cycle.

Thanks essay, much appreciate the help, great forum btw

Adding 1ppm ammonia will keep the bacteria alive, and will reduce the amount of nitrates produced (compared to 3ppm, which was used during the cycling process to build up your bacteria colonies).
 
You're cycled now so you don't need to build your bacteria colonies further, so extra ammonia would just put more nitrate into the tank.
 
1ppm every 2 or 3 days will keep your bacteria alive until you get your fish.

Thanks mate, that's cleared my curiosity, and helped me understand what's going on a bit more.