30 Gallon Stocking Advice

Addarw

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Looking for stocking advice on a new tank!

Tank: 30 Gallon Breeder (36" x 18" x 12")
Hardness: 20ppm
pH: 8.9 from the tap, 7.3 after a day out
Stock:
3x Apistogrammas Cacatuoides (1M 2F)
8x Sterbai Cory
10x Marbled Hatchetfish
6x Otocinclus OR 1x Whiptail Catfish

Will have sand substrate, heavy planting and lots of hiding places.

Could I add more, or am I already fully stocked? Does anyone have experience with Otocinclus or Whiptails? I hear Otos are difficult to keep alive, but I'm not sure if whiptails will eat algae.
 
This tank has a nice footprint. I have a 40g with the same length/width, and 16 instead of 12 inches height [I'm assuming the 12 is the height). These are good tanks for South American soft water fish.

I see no problem with numbers, but there are a couple issues. First, do you want successful fry survival from the cichlids? If yes, forget any catfish, including cories. Many times my cories have discovered the eggs, or sometimes the shoal of fry, and they disappeared within seconds. Being nocturnal, cories have a real advantage over the cichlids.

Whiptails are neat fish, I always have one or more in my main Amazon tank. They are grazers and do eat algae, but minimally, especially compared to otos. Another interesting fish that is better for algae is the Twig Catfish. Here I am thinking of the smaller species in the genus Farlowella, not the much larger "Royal" species in Sturisoma. Of the 27 described species of Farlowella found throughout South America, only two are regularly exported. Most of the existing literature refers to these as F. acus and F. gracilis, but several authorities believe this is incorrect, and consider the fish offered as F. acus to in fact be F. vitatta; the sketch of F. acus [F. vittata] and F. gracilis by Sterba (attached below) shows the differences between the two commonly-available species. Both are identical in their requirements in the aquarium.

The genus was named by Carl and Rosa Eigenmann (1889) in honour of the American botanist from Harvard, William Gibson Farlow (1844-1919), who specialized in algae plants. And this is certainly one of the finest algae-eating fish, comparable to the common Otocinclus. A trio of Farlowella will easily keep a 90g aquarium free of common green and brown algae. However, they can damage soft-leaf plants a bit, though one alone is not going to have much impact, and not on large swords and similar. I had seven (two adults and five of their fry) in my 70g a couple years back, and the fry were about 2/3 the size of the parents; it took me some time to discover that the disintegrating leaves on the pygmy chain sword plants were due to the algae-grazing of the Farlowella (removing them solved the problem). The two adults are now in my 90g and doing no damage, and the five now-mature fry are in a tank with Java Fern which nothing can really harm. But these fish are superb for common algae, just like otos. Neither will touch "problem" algae though.

While we're on Whiptails, the smaller species in Rineloricaria [some sites use Hemiloricaria but this is not established] like the most commonly seen in the hobby, Rineloricaria parva, are lovely fish. I have one that is now in its ninth year (normal lifespan is given as 5-8 years) and no problems, but not much in the way of algae eating. I also have a couple of the variety "Red Lizard Whiptail" which are identical in habits and size, maybe a tad shorter, and no problem, but not much for algae. All of these spend most of their time on the substrate, but they do like chunks of wood to graze and provide shelter (essential).

Otocinclus will be wild caught, and nearly starved by the time they arrive in the local store. This is why so many of them die within a few weeks. If they are introduced to a fairly established tank, meaning one that has been running for a few months to develop some decent biofilms containing common algae, or if the tank has diatoms (brown algae), these fish will have a banquet when introduced and usually survive (unless they are too far gone already).

Byron.
 

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Thanks for the informative response Byron!

It's a shame about the cichlid eggs, but probably for the best, I don't have the resources to raise fry right now.

I looked at Farlowella, but it seems they are fairly hard to raise as well. Will a 30 gallon tank generate enough algae to support either a group of Otos or a Farlowella? How important is it to have an algae eater? What do you mean by problem algae?
 
It is not necessary to have an algae eater. It is better to find out why you have algae and deal with the cause. Since your tank is new, you can try to stop algae taking over :)

One of the best algae eaters is nerite snails. The main problem with them is that a female will lay sesame seed-like eggs on the decor, and these won't hatch, they just stay there. The wood in my tank is covered with eggs :D
 
Will a 30 gallon tank generate enough algae to support either a group of Otos or a Farlowella? How important is it to have an algae eater? What do you mean by problem algae?

Essjay referenced some of this, and I agree. There are two approaches to so-called algae-eating fish. The wrong approach is to think they will solve problem algae--they will not. The correct approach is to balance the light and nutrients for the plant species so algae never becomes problematic, and then you can control it with specific fish if the species suit the aquarium ecosystem. All fish have their own specific requirements that must be provided for if they are to be healthy.

Algae is perfectly natural in every aquarium, and it is impossible to eradicate it; if you did manage to, you would not have a healthy aquarium at all, quite the opposite. Algae needs nutrients, and there are plenty in a tank with fish. And it needs light, and any light will suffice; unlike higher plants, algae is not at all fussy and can manage in any situation. Green and red algae occurs in light, but if there is insufficient light for these, brown algae (called diatoms) will appear. So expect algae of some sort, always. The aim in planted tanks is to keep it under control. In tanks without plants, it actually is beneficial because like higher plants it uses nutrients in the presence of light to produce oxygen, and that is not "bad" at all. But if out of control, it can appear messy, and after that, become a real problem as it indicates a very unhealthy (for fish) system. Cyanobacteria which is not an algae but a true bacteria can be terrible, and green water (which is an unicellular algae in the water column, turning it green) is also not something you want.

"Problem" algae is algae like black brush/beard (there are several other types/species) that can literally destroy a planted tank in weeks if it increases rapidly. Problem algae is caused by an imbalance in the light/nutrient area, always; there is nothing else that causes problem algae. If the light is too intense, or not intense enough for the plant species, the plants will struggle and algae has the advantage because it can "manage" with anything. Each plant species has a light requirement range, important because light drives photosynthesis, so if it is not within the range for that species, the plant cannot photosynthesize properly. And if it is not able to photosynthesize, it cannot use the nutrients, so these then feed algae, and maybe worse (the cyanobacteria, etc).

No fish is going to handle problem algae, with a couple exceptions. But these fish have their own specific requirements I won't get into, and they are usually not suitable for the average tanks. So you control the algae yourself, with a balance of light and nutrients.

Common green algae will appear on every surface covered by water, as part of the biofilm. This collection of various bacteria, algae and microscopic critters is an essential part of a healthy aquarium, just as it is in nature. If you feel a chunk of wood or plant leaf, even the tank glass inside, it is usually sort of slippery, or slimy but in a good sense. This is the biofilm. Some fish species will graze this, eating much of the living organisms including algae. Mollies love this, as do many of the African rift lake cichlid species. But there are some very specialized feeders, the Otocinclus, Farlowella, Bristlenose pleco, and some others. It can be beneficial to have one of these (meaning, one species, as combining species is usually not a good idea, simply because they are competing for the same food, and being so effective they can deplete this quite successfully), and they will readily "learn" to use algae or kelp-based foods to supplement their natural food. I have raised several batches of Farlowella vitatta fry, and it always amazes me just how rapidly they learn what those round disks are that appear once a day; within literally a few weeks, they will converge on these within a couple of minutes after I drop them in. The rest of the day they spend grazing every surface, from the smallest plant leaf to chunks of wood, rock, the tank walls, filter tubes, even the heaters. This is beneficial, as it helps keep this under control. And the fish often have interesting behaviours that make them nice additions to a community tank.

I would however let the tank establish for a few months before adding any of these; they settle in much better when natural food is present to start them off.

I looked at Farlowella, but it seems they are fairly hard to raise as well.

Not really difficult, but they have requirements. Soft water is essential (you have that, with GH at 20 ppm, it is very soft). Acidic pH is also beneficial, and without getting into the chemistry I would suggest that you will likely see it lower below 7 once the tank's biological system gets stabilized. With such a low GH, the pH of your tap water is probably due to something being added by the water authority to raise it. I have this in Vancouver; depending what they use, it can dissipate out quickly, assuming the KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) is also low like the GH..

Second, they are sedate fish, and do not appreciate being pestered by other fish. They do not like moving environments either; when I have had to move them to a different tank, they usually let me know they are displeased. Cories are like this too, as are loaches.

Provided you introduce them to an established tank, and provide an algae-based sinking food a couple times a week, they should settle in nicely. They also love grazing dried leaves, like oak, maple, beech. I collect these in the back garden every autumn, and use them in some tanks as part of the decor (leaves litter most streams of tropical areas) but also as important first food for fry; infusoria will be produced on the leaf surface as it slowly breaks down and fry will greedily graze this; fry grow much faster with dried leaves in the tank than otherwise.
 
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Thanks for the help guys.

I guess I have to wait to see what sort of algae grows. Both of these fish need to be introduced later, anyways. For stocking order, it would be corys, then hatchetfish, then algae eaters, and apistos last?

Do you guys think I have room to fit another species in there? Maybe adding 8 Lemon tetras, or having both Farowella and Rineloricaria?
 
Thanks for the help guys.

I guess I have to wait to see what sort of algae grows. Both of these fish need to be introduced later, anyways. For stocking order, it would be corys, then hatchetfish, then algae eaters, and apistos last?

Do you guys think I have room to fit another species in there? Maybe adding 8 Lemon tetras, or having both Farowella and Rineloricaria?

I'll leave the order of species for the moment, as I want to comment on new species to consider.

Yes, there is space for another group of a shoaling species, but you have to consider a couple things. First is temperature. Not all tropical fish will bee at their best in the same temperature; some species need more warmth, some less, and this is a significant consideration when putting together a community tank (community meaning more than one fish species in the tank). What you have so far are at the warmer end when it comes to temperature. Something to keep in mind.

Second aspect is the activity level of a species. All neotropical cichlids are sedate fish, not active swimmers; on their own, without other upper-level fish in the tank, they can sometimes be a bit shy. Dither fish, which is the term we use to indicate the fish species we keep in with cichlids to make the cichlids more "relaxed," cannot be too active of this will stress out the cichlids as much as not having fish at all, sometimes even more so. Lemon tetra are quite an active fish; I have had a shoal of them for a few years now, and I actually removed them from the original Amazon tank exactly because they were so active. This can make the other fish "jumpy." Diamond Tetra are similar, very, very active fish charging all over the tank. When I moved these out, it was quite interesting how the interactions of the other fish in the tank changed.

The hatchetfish are sedate fish, so that is a good mix. And neotropical cichlids remain in the lower third of the water column, almost to the point of being substrate level fish; they eat off the substrate. So fish that inhabit the upper levels are good, both for tank interest and also to calm the cichlids. Many of the sedate tetras are also mid to lower level fish, so it is worth looking for quiet fish that inhabit the upper levels. Along with the hatchetfish, many cichlid keepers use pencilfish. A couple of these species are a bit feisty, and not good with hatchetfish whom they will nip, but there are others that are ideal. You have soft water, so that is perfect for pencils. Nannostomus eques swims at an angle, among floating plants, and is very peaceful. I have had this species for decades, it is one of my favourite. Another good pencil is the dwarf, Nannostomus marginatus. A very close relative is the Coral Red Pencilfish, Nannostomus morthentaleri, a true beauty. Any one of these, in a group of 9-12, would work.

If you don't care about staying with South American fish, some of the rasbora species fro SE Asia are good dither fish, and most are fairly inactive, and they tend to remain in the mid-water level or slightly above. The common Harlequin Rasbora is often seen, but it has two slightly smaller cousins that are even better here, Trigonostigma espei and T. hengeli; the latter is very attractive with its shining copper patch. Either need a group of 9-10 minimum.

Farlowella and Rineloricaria would be OK together. I keep mine in separate tanks, but not for any problem in combining them.

Now, as for the order of addition, this might depend what you decide on, and what may be available--some of these species are wild caught and will only be seen at certain times, perhaps once a year, so you may need to get them when you see them if you want them. The cichlids last is generally a good idea, if you can work it, but I wouldn't fuss too much over this here. Generally, the more delicate a species, the more mature or established the tank should be.
 
That is very interesting, I did not know that cichlids are less shy with other fish around. Guess I'll nix the lemons then. Shame, the yellow color is very nice, not too many fish have it from what I've seen. Never heard of pencilfish, and haven't seen them in for sale. They are very pretty though. Will have to do more research and see if I can get an order in.

Thanks for all the advice, I can't wait to get started on this project. Will be sure to post pictures!
 
That is very interesting, I did not know that cichlids are less shy with other fish around. Guess I'll nix the lemons then. Shame, the yellow color is very nice, not too many fish have it from what I've seen. Never heard of pencilfish, and haven't seen them in for sale. They are very pretty though. Will have to do more research and see if I can get an order in.

Thanks for all the advice, I can't wait to get started on this project. Will be sure to post pictures!

I do not know where in California you live, and I would not know local fish stores anyway, but as you are on the West coast there is an excellent fish store in Portland, Oregon. The Wet Spot, and they have an online site, and they do mail order. I have not used them myself (I'm up in Vancouver, BC) but I have heard very good reports. And they seem to be able to get just about anything in fish. Checkout their fish list; again you may only find some species at specific times, but have a look.
http://www.wetspottropicalfish.com/
 

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