29G Biocube Questions

[juhason]

 So after trying saltwater for a couple months I decided its best to just give up as upkeep is too expensive and time consuming for me at the moment. However I still want a tank in my room and the look of the biocube is really cool so I really want to make it an awesome planted tank with a rock wall and different ledges for levels and depth and whatnot.... basically I plan on putting a lot of effort and thought into the design this time!
 
The lights for the biocube I believe is meant for corals so I was wondering what I should replace them with??? I think they are both 10k lights and one is antic lighting. The guy I got the tank from also installed a third blue LED strip (I think.... I'll have to double check that).
 
Also would love some good plant recommendations! I am willing to dose fertilizers, but if that can be avoided then please.....
 
Thanks in advance!

 

[Ch4rlie]

This sounds like a cool little project and a big change from sw to fw, usually its from fw to sw most folks do
 
The lights for saltwater setups does differ from freshwater setups as rarely sw setups has any plants and the light sectrum has to be benificial for corals etc so that set up does not suit freshwater with plants.
 
I would aim for 6,700k to 7,000k light tubes either T5 or T8's, of course there are LED's which claim to have these spectrums but do your research to find what would suit you and your budget. Personally I have both T5's and T8's on separate tanks and both are real good in keeping my plants in a good colour and healthy growths, especially floating plants.
 
Personally, I would recommend doing fert dosing to keep nutrients going in the tank, this is my personal choice, as many members say their plants do just fine without dosing ferts. Something that has both micro and trace elements is most beneficial I find. For example Tropica Premium fertiliser is a good all round fert that just needs once weekly dosing, so hardly what you would call hard work to keep up with dosages

 

[juhason]

This sounds like a cool little project and a big change from sw to fw, usually its from fw to sw most folks do

 
The lights for saltwater setups does differ from freshwater setups as rarely sw setups has any plants and the light sectrum has to be benificial for corals etc so that set up does not suit freshwater with plants.
 
I would aim for 6,700k to 7,000k light tubes either T5 or T8's, of course there are LED's which claim to have these spectrums but do your research to find what would suit you and your budget. Personally I have both T5's and T8's on separate tanks and both are real good in keeping my plants in a good colour and healthy growths, especially floating plants.
 
Personally, I would recommend doing fert dosing to keep nutrients going in the tank, this is my personal choice, as many members say their plants do just fine without dosing ferts. Something that has both micro and trace elements is most beneficial I find. For example Tropica Premium fertiliser is a good all round fert that just needs once weekly dosing, so hardly what you would call hard work to keep up with dosages

Ok thank you so much!!! I wanted to avoid ferts cause cost not chore haha but its not super expensive and definitely a lot cheaper than keeping up with a reef tank so I am willing. So I should have 2 T8 or T5 tubes? And daylight tubes? Also do you think I would need to dose carbon? I heard but am not positive that the bioballs make it difficult for plants because they overload the water with oxygen.

 

[jag51186]

I believe 10k can still be used for plants, but if it is meant for coral it might be all blue and no red. Buildmyled.com makes a 10k planted light to accentuate fish colors and greens, but I think they balance it properly with red as well so the plants get the spectrum they need. I agree with Ch4rlie on the ferts, I would recommend dosing them weekly as well for a low-tech setup. Typically speaking, you won't need to dose carbon at all in a low tech planted setup, and if you do I would just like to let you know that liquid carbon will actually kill some of the more primitive plants (Vallisneria sp., mosses, and ferns I believe). So, if you were planning on these, I would steer clear of liquid carbons.
 
Just gonna throw this out there too, a lot of people that you see post other places online will use plants as a way to get lazy on their maintenance schedule, because the plants will absorb nitrates. But, if you want your system to stay healthy, you still need to do weekly water changes.

 

[Ch4rlie]

jag51186 has pretty much said it about these 10k lights but I have tried these before and did not work out for me. But thats not to say it wont work on your set up, every tank is different.
 
Absolutely agreed on carbon dosing affecting plants such as vallisernias as these tend to melt when dosed with carbon.
 
As for trying to choose between T5 and T8, I think you may find that T8's are dying out and being replaced with more energy effective T5's and LED units, so therefore T5 or LED is the way to go.
 
Again I would recommend you to research to see what would suit your set up and budget etc. Research and asking for advice is key

 

[juhason]

I believe 10k can still be used for plants, but if it is meant for coral it might be all blue and no red. Buildmyled.com makes a 10k planted light to accentuate fish colors and greens, but I think they balance it properly with red as well so the plants get the spectrum they need. I agree with Ch4rlie on the ferts, I would recommend dosing them weekly as well for a low-tech setup. Typically speaking, you won't need to dose carbon at all in a low tech planted setup, and if you do I would just like to let you know that liquid carbon will actually kill some of the more primitive plants (Vallisneria sp., mosses, and ferns I believe). So, if you were planning on these, I would steer clear of liquid carbons.
 
Just gonna throw this out there too, a lot of people that you see post other places online will use plants as a way to get lazy on their maintenance schedule, because the plants will absorb nitrates. But, if you want your system to stay healthy, you still need to do weekly water changes.

Thank you for the info. If I do decide on dosing CO2 would DIY carbon suffice? Also I should be able to handle weekly maintenance for freshwater. It was difficult with saltwater because I needed to get RO water and the nearest place was 30 minutes away, plus stirring in the correct amount of salt blah blah. It was a lot of work
 

jag51186 has pretty much said it about these 10k lights but I have tried these before and did not work out for me. But thats not to say it wont work on your set up, every tank is different.
 
Absolutely agreed on carbon dosing affecting plants such as vallisernias as these tend to melt when dosed with carbon.
 
As for trying to choose between T5 and T8, I think you may find that T8's are dying out and being replaced with more energy effective T5's and LED units, so therefore T5 or LED is the way to go.
 
Again I would recommend you to research to see what would suit your set up and budget etc. Research and asking for advice is key

 
 
Ok thank you!

 

[Byron]

On the CO2, personally I would not recommend this, unless your intention is to have an aquatic garden, by which I mean that you want a tank of aquatic plants that are the prime focus, with few or even no fish.  This approach is quite different from those of us who want tanks with fish that are the prime focus, and the plants are there for aesthetics but we also recognize that plants will improve water quality.  The rock wall mentioned could fit either approach.
 
The light is the most critical factor, and here it would help to have the dimensions of this tank.  Light has to penetrate the water, and water lessens the penetrating ability of light much more than air.  This too involves knowing more of what you intend/expect...those for instance who want a lawn or carpet effect need more intense lighting to achieve this, but then you have to consider the fish as most of the freshwater species do not appreciate strong overhead light.  Plants have differing light requirements; light is what drives photosynthesis, and it has to be of a certain intensity for each species of plants.  So keep this in mind when selecting light; mixing high light, moderate light and low light plants does not always work.
 
Once we have the above sorted out, members should be able to suggest lighting.  If the light you now have is interchangeable--it seems to be LED and there are units where you can change out the banks of lights--you might be able to just replace the present mix with plant-friendly lighting.  I have no experience with LED, other than one complete failure, and I am using T8 (I have tried T5, much too bright for my needs).  Whichever you end up with, the spectrum is important.  Aquatic plants require red and blue light for photosynthesis, but studies have shown that adding green to this combo does seem to improve plant growth.  Generally, this means light with a colour rendition around 5000K to 7000K.  I have used everything from 4000K to 11000K (with T8 tubes) and there is no doubt that the plants do respond best within the 5000K to 7000K range, which follows the results mentioned.
 
Fertilizers may or may not be required, depending what plants you end up with, plus the GH of your source water and the fish load; fish foods contain the plant nutrients, so the fish load will determine how much food is entering the system, and the needs of the plants may or may not be satisfied, depending upon the plant species.  High light goes with increased (sometimes daily) fertilizers including CO2, all the way down to low light which will suffice for slow-growing plants and perhaps without any supplements.
 
Byron.

 

[juhason]

On the CO2, personally I would not recommend this, unless your intention is to have an aquatic garden, by which I mean that you want a tank of aquatic plants that are the prime focus, with few or even no fish.  This approach is quite different from those of us who want tanks with fish that are the prime focus, and the plants are there for aesthetics but we also recognize that plants will improve water quality.  The rock wall mentioned could fit either approach.
 
The light is the most critical factor, and here it would help to have the dimensions of this tank.  Light has to penetrate the water, and water lessens the penetrating ability of light much more than air.  This too involves knowing more of what you intend/expect...those for instance who want a lawn or carpet effect need more intense lighting to achieve this, but then you have to consider the fish as most of the freshwater species do not appreciate strong overhead light.  Plants have differing light requirements; light is what drives photosynthesis, and it has to be of a certain intensity for each species of plants.  So keep this in mind when selecting light; mixing high light, moderate light and low light plants does not always work.
 
Once we have the above sorted out, members should be able to suggest lighting.  If the light you now have is interchangeable--it seems to be LED and there are units where you can change out the banks of lights--you might be able to just replace the present mix with plant-friendly lighting.  I have no experience with LED, other than one complete failure, and I am using T8 (I have tried T5, much too bright for my needs).  Whichever you end up with, the spectrum is important.  Aquatic plants require red and blue light for photosynthesis, but studies have shown that adding green to this combo does seem to improve plant growth.  Generally, this means light with a colour rendition around 5000K to 7000K.  I have used everything from 4000K to 11000K (with T8 tubes) and there is no doubt that the plants do respond best within the 5000K to 7000K range, which follows the results mentioned.
 
Fertilizers may or may not be required, depending what plants you end up with, plus the GH of your source water and the fish load; fish foods contain the plant nutrients, so the fish load will determine how much food is entering the system, and the needs of the plants may or may not be satisfied, depending upon the plant species.  High light goes with increased (sometimes daily) fertilizers including CO2, all the way down to low light which will suffice for slow-growing plants and perhaps without any supplements.
 
Byron.

Very informative, thank you! So if I'm going with 2 lights should I get two different K-values, like one 5000k and one 7000k? Or both being the same would be fine? I'm actually not 100% sure how to test for GH... and plants I am open to any, although I am particularly fond of the low-light ones I have had before (such as Java fern and crypts) and I wouldn't want to have to put a lot of money into high-light systems.... as much as I love a baby tear carpet. So I guess I would go with low light plants

 

[juhason]

Something I forgot about but would love to try!!!
 
If I had a layer of soil on the bottom (which I would do my best to properly mineralize it and cap it with sand or gravel) would I still need to dose fertilizer?

 

[Byron]

Very informative, thank you! So if I'm going with 2 lights should I get two different K-values, like one 5000k and one 7000k? Or both being the same would be fine? I'm actually not 100% sure how to test for GH... and plants I am open to any, although I am particularly fond of the low-light ones I have had before (such as Java fern and crypts) and I wouldn't want to have to put a lot of money into high-light systems.... as much as I love a baby tear carpet. So I guess I would go with low light plants
 

 
Welcome.  What type of light are we now considering...if you are going to T8 then yes, this would be a good combo.  I use one 5000K and one 6500K (I have never seen a 7000K) on my three dual-tube tanks and I like the warmth the 5000K brings (being higher red) along with the crisper cool white (blue) of the 6500K.  On its own, the 6500K is ideal plant light, as it has high red, blue and green.  The addition of the warmer tube is liked by most people who may find the 6500K a tad "cold."
 
IF you intend lower-light plants, the n I would stay away from T5, although a single tube could work well, using a 6500K tube.  So many of these units are dual tube, and it is a lot of light.  The dual T8 would be more manageable.  And floating plants can help with shading, plus their incredible benefits when it comes to ammonia and nutrients.
 
The GH you can (or should be able to) ascertain from your water authority's website.  Unless you are targeting GH specifically in an aquarium, it will not deviate much from the source water (same for KH).  From your KH number [which in the other thread was 100 ppm I recall?) I will hazard a guess that the GH will likely be similar, though this is not always the case.
 
BTW, I see I didn`t really comment on the existing actinic and 10000K lights...this is not usually sufficient for good plant growth, and it can cause real algae issues.  Algae is not so fussy when it comes to light or nutrients as higher plants.  One of the results of my own experiments with higher-kelvin (blue) light was increased algae which disappeared with the return to 6500K and then 5000K/6500K combos, with the same level of intensity.
 

If I had a layer of soil on the bottom (which I would do my best to properly mineralize it and cap it with sand or gravel) would I still need to dose fertilizer?
 

 
Probably (technically speaking) you should not need to add fertilizers with soil.  However, there are some significant issues using soil, and you should thoroughly research these beforehand.  Diana Walstad has a book, several articles, and a website, and she was the first to promote this method.  Others have written similarly of the issues.  I have never bothered with a soil tank, as from all this data I can see no advantage, but several disadvantages.  After about a year, as Diana herself writes, one is at the same stage with soil as one would be with plain sand, as the soil does deplete its nutrients.  
 
The advantage of soil is the initial load of organics that decompose and produce CO2 to really get the plants going.  [Unfortunately, this also causes significant ammonia, one of the "issues."]  The on-going production of CO2 does not diminish much over time, as new organics (fish poop) are continually entering the substrate to replenish.  But again this happens with any substrate, it is just that it can take a few months to build this up initially.  But having said that, I have never had issues with too little CO2 in new tanks, and I have set up dozens in my 20+ years of planted tanks.  I always have floating plants for several important reasons, and one benefit is they do not need CO2 from the water as they have the aerial advantage which is why they grow so fast.
 
Byron.

 

[juhason]

 

Very informative, thank you! So if I'm going with 2 lights should I get two different K-values, like one 5000k and one 7000k? Or both being the same would be fine? I'm actually not 100% sure how to test for GH... and plants I am open to any, although I am particularly fond of the low-light ones I have had before (such as Java fern and crypts) and I wouldn't want to have to put a lot of money into high-light systems.... as much as I love a baby tear carpet. So I guess I would go with low light plants
 

 
Welcome.  What type of light are we now considering...if you are going to T8 then yes, this would be a good combo.  I use one 5000K and one 6500K (I have never seen a 7000K) on my three dual-tube tanks and I like the warmth the 5000K brings (being higher red) along with the crisper cool white (blue) of the 6500K.  On its own, the 6500K is ideal plant light, as it has high red, blue and green.  The addition of the warmer tube is liked by most people who may find the 6500K a tad "cold."
 
IF you intend lower-light plants, the n I would stay away from T5, although a single tube could work well, using a 6500K tube.  So many of these units are dual tube, and it is a lot of light.  The dual T8 would be more manageable.  And floating plants can help with shading, plus their incredible benefits when it comes to ammonia and nutrients.
 
The GH you can (or should be able to) ascertain from your water authority's website.  Unless you are targeting GH specifically in an aquarium, it will not deviate much from the source water (same for KH).  From your KH number [which in the other thread was 100 ppm I recall?) I will hazard a guess that the GH will likely be similar, though this is not always the case.
 
BTW, I see I didn`t really comment on the existing actinic and 10000K lights...this is not usually sufficient for good plant growth, and it can cause real algae issues.  Algae is not so fussy when it comes to light or nutrients as higher plants.  One of the results of my own experiments with higher-kelvin (blue) light was increased algae which disappeared with the return to 6500K and then 5000K/6500K combos, with the same level of intensity.
 
If I had a layer of soil on the bottom (which I would do my best to properly mineralize it and cap it with sand or gravel) would I still need to dose fertilizer?
 

 
Probably (technically speaking) you should not need to add fertilizers with soil.  However, there are some significant issues using soil, and you should thoroughly research these beforehand.  Diana Walstad has a book, several articles, and a website, and she was the first to promote this method.  Others have written similarly of the issues.  I have never bothered with a soil tank, as from all this data I can see no advantage, but several disadvantages.  After about a year, as Diana herself writes, one is at the same stage with soil as one would be with plain sand, as the soil does deplete its nutrients.  
 
The advantage of soil is the initial load of organics that decompose and produce CO2 to really get the plants going.  [Unfortunately, this also causes significant ammonia, one of the "issues."]  The on-going production of CO2 does not diminish much over time, as new organics (fish poop) are continually entering the substrate to replenish.  But again this happens with any substrate, it is just that it can take a few months to build this up initially.  But having said that, I have never had issues with too little CO2 in new tanks, and I have set up dozens in my 20+ years of planted tanks.  I always have floating plants for several important reasons, and one benefit is they do not need CO2 from the water as they have the aerial advantage which is why they grow so fast.
 
Byron.


Ok I'll check my towns GH/KH. And I'll more than likely go with T8 as low light plants are nice to me and they are also cheaper. I'll also stay away from soil!
 
One last question, what floating plants do you recommend? I always have a problem with hornwort sinking and other floating plants tend to be blown around by the current!

 

[Byron]

In the other thread you mention "hardness" on the water authority site given as  141-147 CACO3/L, and I will assume that this is mg/l which is the same as ppm that aquarists tend to use, and this is the GH so we have moderately soft/hard water at roughly 8 dGH.  You should have no issues, plant wise, and as noted in the other thread, this is fine for the fish species mentioned.
 
One thing about soil here that I missed previously is that plants that are not rooted in the substrate would obviously gain no benefit from any nutrients in the soil.  But for substrate-rooted plants it is easy to add substrate tabs if needed.  Liquid fertilizer added to the water is the first type of supplementation one should use for a couple reasons.  First, it obviously is in the water column and thus all plants can take the nutrients up.  Water is circulating through the substrate naturally, so substrate-rooted plants are fine, and plants not rooted in the substrate such as Java Fern, moss, etc (these attach to wood or rock) and floating obviously benefit directly.  As well, some nutrients are primarily taken up via the leaves.  Over the years I have experimented with various substrates (except soil as I mentioned) and not found any benefits.  I use liquid fertilizer, and in my large tanks with heavy-feeding rooted plants like large swords, substrate tabs.
 
Floating plants.  True floating plants, like Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta), Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes) and Frogbit (Limnobium species) are what you want to have; these form fairly large plants, and once they do, they can usually be placed on the surface such that you can keep them stationary.
 
Frogbit comes in a tropical species and two temperate species; one is a pest in eastern North America...I happen to have this one, it was sold in the store as Amazon Frogbit, but when it flowered it obviously was the temperate species.  It may be illegal in some states as it was introduced (deliberately, ironically) in SE Canada and has now spread quite far.  A nice plant though.
 
Water Lettuce does well in outdoor ponds as well as tropical aquaria, so this might be worth getting.  The long root masses can look striking, and in a vertical tank would be good.
 
Water Sprite is my personal favourite, and though tropical, it will acclimate to room temperatures which is what your aquarium will presumably be.
 
On your light, make sure it is a dual tube in T8, as you need that to penetrate the depth.  I have a single T8 tube, 17w, 24 inches, over my basic 29g and it is just enough to allow me pygmy chain swords, plus floating plants.  Two tubes with the mix of spectrum would be nice.
 
Byron.

 

[juhason]

In the other thread you mention "hardness" on the water authority site given as  141-147 CACO3/L, and I will assume that this is mg/l which is the same as ppm that aquarists tend to use, and this is the GH so we have moderately soft/hard water at roughly 8 dGH.  You should have no issues, plant wise, and as noted in the other thread, this is fine for the fish species mentioned.
 
One thing about soil here that I missed previously is that plants that are not rooted in the substrate would obviously gain no benefit from any nutrients in the soil.  But for substrate-rooted plants it is easy to add substrate tabs if needed.  Liquid fertilizer added to the water is the first type of supplementation one should use for a couple reasons.  First, it obviously is in the water column and thus all plants can take the nutrients up.  Water is circulating through the substrate naturally, so substrate-rooted plants are fine, and plants not rooted in the substrate such as Java Fern, moss, etc (these attach to wood or rock) and floating obviously benefit directly.  As well, some nutrients are primarily taken up via the leaves.  Over the years I have experimented with various substrates (except soil as I mentioned) and not found any benefits.  I use liquid fertilizer, and in my large tanks with heavy-feeding rooted plants like large swords, substrate tabs.
 
Floating plants.  True floating plants, like Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta), Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes) and Frogbit (Limnobium species) are what you want to have; these form fairly large plants, and once they do, they can usually be placed on the surface such that you can keep them stationary.
 
Frogbit comes in a tropical species and two temperate species; one is a pest in eastern North America...I happen to have this one, it was sold in the store as Amazon Frogbit, but when it flowered it obviously was the temperate species.  It may be illegal in some states as it was introduced (deliberately, ironically) in SE Canada and has now spread quite far.  A nice plant though.
 
Water Lettuce does well in outdoor ponds as well as tropical aquaria, so this might be worth getting.  The long root masses can look striking, and in a vertical tank would be good.
 
Water Sprite is my personal favourite, and though tropical, it will acclimate to room temperatures which is what your aquarium will presumably be.
 
On your light, make sure it is a dual tube in T8, as you need that to penetrate the depth.  I have a single T8 tube, 17w, 24 inches, over my basic 29g and it is just enough to allow me pygmy chain swords, plus floating plants.  Two tubes with the mix of spectrum would be nice.
 
Byron.

Ok thank you so much! You are so helpful

 

[Ch4rlie]

Byron has been quite thorough in his explainations and I have to agree with everything that has been stated as from my own experiences I found it to be very similar to Byron's findings, very little to add to this

 
One thing I did not mention in my post about fertizers and Byron has touched on this is substrate fertilizer, very much well worth having if you have rooted plants especially if you have heavy feeders such as amazon sword which grows pretty big btw.
 
Personally I use Seachem Flourish Root Tabs, a bit more expensive than most root tabs found in LFS and online but I find this to be decent value as this contains micro and trace elements which is vital for plant growth and health.
 
And as for floating plants, my personal choices would be silvinia natans and water lettuce, these will absorb a lot of nutrients from the water column which is good to keep ammonia and nitrate levels lower. But you do need to continue with 40 - 50% water changes weekly even if you read zero nitrate on water tests as the new fresh water will contain minerals which is essential for fish and plants.
 
One last note, I would personally avoid duckweed as these can rapidly overgrow on surface of water and becomes a bit of a chore to remove handfuls of this every week

 

[juhason]

Byron has been quite thorough in his explainations and I have to agree with everything that has been stated as from my own experiences I found it to be very similar to Byron's findings, very little to add to this

 
One thing I did not mention in my post about fertizers and Byron has touched on this is substrate fertilizer, very much well worth having if you have rooted planst especially if you have heavy feeders such as amazon sword which grows pretty big btw.
 
Personally I use Seachem Flourish Root Tabs, a bit more expensive than most root tabs found in LFS and online but I find this to be decent value as this contains micro and trace elements which is vital for plant growth and health.
 
And as for floating plants, my personal choices would be silvinia natans and water lettuce, these will absorb a lot of nutrients from the water column which is good to keep ammonia and nitrate levels lower. But you do need to continue with 40 - 50% water changes weekely even if you read zero nitrate on water tests as the new fresh water will contian minerals which is essential for fish and plants.
 
One last note, I would personally avoid duckweed as these can rapidly overgrow on surface of water and becomes a bit of a chore to remove handfuls every week

I tired water lettuce once and it died. I don't know what I did wrong

  Also the lights will probably be right on top of the lettuce, would that be ok?  Also salvinia natans looks really cool! I think I might do that and frogbit and then water lettuce if I can get it to stay alive