200L (48 gallon) Tank stocking advice

[Jayztar]

I am in the process of cycling a 200L (123 cm x 44 cm x 36 cm) tank. I have a black sand substrate combined with Fluval stratum in some of the more heavily planted areas (note this is my first ever planted tank). My plants are from my LFS and are:

Java fern (normal) x3
Java fern (needle leaf) x2
Java fern (laced) x1
Java moss x2
Pennywort x1
hairgrass x2
pygmy chain sword x1

I'd like to add some more plants but I'm doing it kind of slowly as they're expensive. Also I like to add Flourish excel for a bit of a carbon boost to help the plants really take off.
I have the heating at 25 Celsius and I have a Aqua one Nautilus 2700 external canister filter on the way. I also have a Aqua one Nautilus 800 external filter from a previous 50L tank that I will have setup as well (can't have to much filtration in my opinion) however, currently the tank is being filtered by a temporary internal canister filter (it came with my second hand tank not sure of the specs).

pH will be kept ideally neutral (I think my tap water sits at 7.4 ish from memory). My fish stocking idea is below but feedback on anything would be great.

Stocking idea
x10 Corydoras Sterbai
x 15 Odessa barbs (Ticto Barbs)
x 1 three spot gourami
x 10 Danio (probably both zebra and leopard) I might up them to 15
x 10 Cardinal tetra

I am unsure about the tetra compatibility AqAdvisor suggest that the three spot gourami is to aggressive for the cardinal tetra. If that's the case does anyone have a suggestion for a similar small pretty fish (I personally love the colours of blue and red neon and cardinal tetras).

for more info with he above info AqAdvisor has my tank stocked at 92% with 257% filtration.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[fluttermoth]

Do you know the hardness of your water? That's more important for fish than pH. I would not recommend trying to change the pH; it's much better to choose fish that like what you have. Trying to 'fix' or change pH, more often than not, leads to swings in pH, which are much more harmful to fish than a stable one, even if it's slightly 'wrong'.

As to your fish species...that's not going to work as it stands. You have both hard water (the barbs) and soft water fish (the cardinals) on your list; one or the other species isn't going to be happy. You also have a mixture of true tropicals (the sterbai and cardinals) and temperate species (the barbs and the danios) and again, there's not really a compromise that will keep both types in good health.

I would honestly forget the three spot gourami; they're a very aggressive fish, IME, and will severely limit your stocking options.

 

[Essjay]

I don't like to contradict Fluttermoth but ticto barbs are OK in soft water and odessa barbs in moderately soft water. According to Seriously Fish, the hardness range for odessa barbs is 90 to 357 ppm (5 to 20 deg), and for ticto barbs it is 36 to 215 ppm (2 to 12 deg).

But I agree with the temperature incompatibility.

 

[fluttermoth]

I don't like to contradict Fluttermoth but ticto barbs are OK in soft water and odessa barbs in moderately soft water. According to Seriously Fish, the hardness range for odessa barbs is 90 to 357 ppm (5 to 20 deg), and for ticto barbs it is 36 to 215 ppm (2 to 12 deg).

I'm always happy to stand corrected, thank you

 

[Byron]

I agree with what has been posted to date. The Three Spot Gourami, which is the species Trichopodus trichopterus, comes in several varieties such as 3-spot, blue, gold,opaline, cosby, marble, etc. But these are the same species, and it is indeed one of the more aggressive gourami species. I have observed them eat neons in a store tank, and many members have mentioned males and even females suddenly turning aggressive on other species in the tank to the point of killing them. Even if this were not the issue, gourami are generally sedate inactive fish, cruising among floating plants and branches as opposed to actively swimming, and such fish should not be combined with active species. Barbs and danios are all active species, so that would not be a good combo for this reason too.

When we know the water parameters of your source water (tap or well) we will be able to offer suggestions.

Welcome to TFF.

Byron.

 

[Jayztar]

Hi
Thanks for your advice, I was concerned about the aggressive behaviour of the three spot Gourami but I was assured by my LFS that it would be fine with the Odessa barbs. I scoured the internet and found other people who keep them together?
I was unsure about the compatibility with the smaller fish (danios and tetras). I do not know what the hardness of my tap water is I haven't checked it but the pH is 7.

I'm a bit confused about the temperature issues that have been raised because according to my research Odessa barbs prefer temps between 21-26 Celsius (70-78 F) and Corydoras sterbai like 21-24 Celsius (70 -77F) so my plan was to keep the tank at about 24 C (I currently keep corys and Danios at this temp). I read that the male Odessa barbs colours is quite a bit brighter with much deeper reds being displayed at the higher end of their temperature range.
According to one of my fish books danios like a temp range between 22-26 C (72-79F). So a temp of 24C should suit them all just fine??

 

[Essjay]

There are many websites that contain inaccurate information. The best one to research fish is Seriously Fish.

That gives in deg C -
odessa barbs 16 to 25
sterbai cories 24 to 28
zebra danio 18 to 25
cardinal tetra 23 to 29

As you can see, there are two sets of temperature requirements and as fish should be kept around the middle of their preferred range neither group will be happy at 24 deg C.
Sterbai cories are just about the only cory that likes the temp this warm, most other cory species prefer cooler water but not as cool as zebra danios.




You can probably find the hardness of your tap water somewhere on your water company's website. Make a note of the unit as well as the number as they could use use any one of half a dozen units. If they give something called alkalinity, make a note of that as well - it is the name water companies use for KH.

 

[Jayztar]

There are many websites that contain inaccurate information. The best one to research fish is Seriously Fish.

That gives in deg C -
odessa barbs 16 to 25
sterbai cories 24 to 28
zebra danio 18 to 25
cardinal tetra 23 to 29

As you can see, there are two sets of temperature requirements and as fish should be kept around the middle of their preferred range neither group will be happy at 24 deg C.
Sterbai cories are just about the only cory that likes the temp this warm, most other cory species prefer cooler water but not as cool as zebra danios.




You can probably find the hardness of your tap water somewhere on your water company's website. Make a note of the unit as well as the number as they could use use any one of half a dozen units. If they give something called alkalinity, make a note of that as well - it is the name water companies use for KH.

Those temperature ranges are quite different from what I've found and they also differ from some books I bought on aquarium fish (particularly for the danios). So I am unsure what to do now.

I currently have a single corydoras sterbai (I know they need groups) and a couple of danios in a 50L, my plan was to move them both into the 200L increase the numbers and add the other fish. I've particularly wanted to keep the Odessa barbs for the last 4 years but have never had the tank space until now.


The water hardness for my area is 37.8 mg/L and alkalinity is 37 mg/L

 

[hobby5]

Why not rehome the single sterbai cory?

 

[Jayztar]

Okay, so I'm thinking about keeping the 50L running with the Danios, moving the cory into the 200L increasing numbers to 10-15x corys (I have had these fish for a few years now and want to keep them , I do feel bad that I've been keeping them at the wrong temperature but I just went of the temperature ranges that were in the book I bought ).

What fish would make suitable tank mates for the cory cats? I'd like a community tank, so some nice coloured mid swimmers and maybe a feature fish. I originally wanted a three spot Gourami to be a feature fish would that be okay with cory cats? Or is there a larger gourami with a nicer temperament that could work better in a community tank? Is there a fish similar in size to the Odessa barbs that would work?

Thanks everyone

 

[hobby5]

Are you sure you don't want to change for a cory species which likes lower temps? There are plenty.

With rather soft water and a 200 l tank you got plenty of options Check out the many Characiformes. Tbh, gouramis and cory are not ideal tank mates as the gouramis really like still water, while the cories prefer some water movement.

 

[Jayztar]

Are you sure you don't want to change for a cory species which likes lower temps? There are plenty.

With rather soft water and a 200 l tank you got plenty of options Check out the many Characiformes. Tbh, gouramis and cory are not ideal tank mates as the gouramis really like still water, while the cories prefer some water movement.

Which Corys like lower temperatures compatible with the Odessa barbs? Also instead of a gourami does anyone have a suggestion for a feature fish that will work?

 

[Essjay]

Among the more common cories in shops:
Bronze cory http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-aeneus/
Panda cory (which also like faster flowing water) http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-panda/

Slightly less common:
Green-gold cory http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-melanotaenia/

These will all be OK down to about 20 deg C.


Zebra danios need long tanks because of their swimming behaviour. People who have them in 4 foot tanks say they can cross the tank in less than a second. Seriously Fish reckons 90 cm/36 inches is the minimum tank length for these fish.

 

[Byron]

The GH and KH numbers indicate very soft water. There are almost countless suitable fish species, most of those from South America and SE Asia, with some exceptions.

I don't want to repeat what other members have already mentioned about temperature and swimming activity/space, so I will provide what may be some useful background to this.

Fish are ectotherms (commonly called cold-blooded, though that term may be a bit misleading) which means that the temperature of their aquatic environment drives their metabolism, and their entire physiology is designed to function best in a fairly specific temperature range. When the fish are forced to live outside their preferred range, their metabolism has to work harder to cope, and normal functions are more difficult, the fish may be under stress, and all this weakens them further. The range is certainly not as expansive as some might suggest; temperatures in tropical waters do not vary as much as many believe. And in natural waters fish can move out of something they do not "like" in most cases so they are able to further regulate things. The tropics are actually quite a stable environment, which is (not surprisingly) why most of the fish species do so well in home aquaria where we usually provide a very stable environment temperature-wise. Fish are usually able to tolerate limited extremes (high and low) but long-term mid-range temperatures are advisable.

Fish have varying levels of activity. Sedate fish like gourami, most neotropic cichlids, many of the characins and others prefer quiet water with less current. This too is significant to the fish's metabolism, because swimming against a current takes energy, and if the fish is not designed for this, it wears them down faster just like an inappropriate temperature. Water parameters also impact this. Any of these factors can affect the normal body functions including digestion, respiration, maintaining their immune system, and maintaining the very complex physiological processes that are essential to the fish.

There is much to consider when combining species in a community aquarium. In addition to the above, the aquascape is extremely important, as fish have evolved to "expect" their habitat features, like sand or gravel, wood, rock, plants, leaves. Active swimmers combined with sedate fish is a mistake, because the sedate fish will be unsettled by all that activity around them, aside from any aggressive tendencies that often occur.

Byron.

 

[Jayztar]

Thanks everyone for all of your advice its been really helpful
I'm thinking after reading everyone's advice and spending sometime researching on Seriously Fish, that my new tank stocking idea is:

x13 Panda Corys
x15 Odessa Barbs
x7 Zebra Danios
x7 Lepoard Danios

I would like another fish to add in as well, maybe the Bloodfin Tetra Or Giant Danio. I like the Buenos aires terta but I don't want my plants to get destroyed. Does anyone have a suggestion?

The plan will be to keep the tank at 20 C, although there will be some variation in summer as I live in Australia and my house gets quite hot but I have read that some variation to higher temperatures are fine, for these fish. I will make sure to keep watch on the tank in summer but I don't believe the temperature will vary that much it shouldn't go above 24 ish (if it does go to high I've already been reading up about cooling tanks with ice blocks or frequent water changes).