135 Gallon Central/south American Setup - Need Help

[Murrayjane]

I currently have a 135 gallon tank and was wondering different combinations of cichlids that I could keep long term. I have the knowledge of the different fish temperments, however, I seek advice on the combinations recommended for a tank of such a relatively small size. I am more than willing to relocate/rehome as many fish as needed to in order to have a successful establishment. Please feel free to add constructive criticism as well as to include any additional information of interest. (for example: will adding better filtration allow me to keep a larger combination?) Of course there are countless combinations that will be possible, but I think there will be some concrete stocking orders that would be more appropriate than others.
 
My current stock
2 Jack Dempseys (male and female) approx 7" 4"
1 Jaguar Cichlid (gender unknown) approx 4"
1 Firehead Cichlid (gender unknown) 6"
1 Super Green Texas (gender unknown) 4"
1 Bubble Super Green Texas (male) 5"
1 Pink Convict (female, paired with Bubble Texas) 3"
1 Green Terror (male) 5"
1 King Kamfa Flowerhorn (Thinking female) 5"
3 True Red Terrors (gender unknown) 2" (trying to keep them isolated from rest until further growth)
 
Other fish
1 Lima Shovelnose catfish
2 Pictus Catfish
1 Senegal Bichir
3 Silver Dollars
1 Clown Loach
1 Yoyo Loach
1 Climbing Perch Fish
 
Obviously this is way too many fish for the current and long term and again I am willing to reduce the numbers significantly. Surpirsing, I haven't had any major aggression thus far other than losing a schoal of tiger barbs. Had the 135 up and running for about 3 months now. Any advice is much appreciated! If anyone would like to see pictures of any of them let me know.

 

[dougie]

Can't really help, but would love to see a few pictures

 

[Wills]

Crikey that is a lot of fish!!
 
I have the same tank as you what are your dimensions? Mine is 6 foot long 2 foot tall 18 inches front to back.
 
3 months is really just a tiny amount of time to judge the success of the tank - it gives a brief indicator but you do have a lot of young fish in there and a big mix of genders and as they reach sexual maturity issues are going to pour out. The fact you lost the Tiger Barbs is not too much of an issue as you do have a lot of predatory fish in there and if they were young it was unfortunately just nature and was quite inevitable.
 
Im really struggling to work out what the best plan would be. A lot of the fish you have ideally need to get a minimum of 180 gallons before some of these fish are safe to mix with others. Things like the Jag and Red Terrors but you could also group the Green Terror into that group as well - the Flowerhorn is probably even worse as it could decided to want the whole tank to its self they are quite unpredictable.
 
Also some of the common names you have used are a bit confusing the Fire Head Cichlid is that a Firemouth - Thoricthys Meeki or is it the larger Vieja Synsplium I have heard it used for both and obviously they are pretty different fish - Also the Super Green Texas Cichlid are they the more peaceful Herichthys Carpintis or the more aggressive Herichthys Cyanoguttatus  - Carpintis generally have large spots over the body and the Cyanoguttatus have smaller spots.
 
Also when stocking a tank the size the fish are at the moment is irrelevant really as they will grow and they all grow pretty fast and you need to plan to keep these fish long term over a period of years.
 
With the non cichlid fish you have nearly all of them are either schooling fish or gregarious fish and could all do with some more of each in there but that alone would possibly over stock you.
 
For now I am just going to go on the assumption that it is the same as my tank and the filtration is good and around the 10x per hour or preferably more.
 
1 Green Texas - ? 
1 Green Terror - 1m
2 Jack Dempseys - 1m 1f
1 Firemouth Cichlid - ? (going on the assumption that it is a Firemouth)
1 Pink Convict - 1f
 
3 Lima Shovelnose Catfish  or 5 Pictus Catfish or 6 Yoyo Loaches (I would go for the Pictus)
5 Silver Dollars
1 Senegal Bichir
 
Okay so my reasons for suggesting this stocking - you might get away with one Texas Cichlid in here as they are one of those fish that might work in a tank other times they become uncontrollable its upto you to keep an eye on it - also stay with the normal one this one over the bubble (presuming bubble means same as balloon) as if they have paired with the Convict all that will happen is a lot of fighting in the tank and you will end up with hybrid fry which will be very very hard to move on to a shop or other fish keepers so you would end up with a lot of fish you might not particularly want or be able to keep - also bubble/balloon fish are a line bred fish for image not practicality and in a rough and tough cichlid tank like this having a line bred deformity is never going to help here. I also left in the Green Terror as there is a chance it could work out but just keep a very good eye on it as they can become a bit mental... But between the Texas and the Green Terror you will have two big central cichlids that will help keep a good hierachy to the tank so long as they get on and they are very nice looking fish
 
I think that you should also be okay with the pair of Jacks, a single Con and a single FM with those two as well
 
From the none cichlids I have done it so that the schooling fish like the Pictus and the Silver Dollars are in proper groups which will look great as well as fulfilling a need for the fish - I think its best to rehome your loaches as they need groups rather than being just single fish in the tank and they are slower growing than the Catfish and could be an issue as your Cichlids and Bichir grow. I also dont think the Climbing Perch is the best fish in this tank as some of the bigger Cichlids could cause them issues - they can work with Cichlids but need to be a much calmer group than these lot
 
Hope thats helped and if you can give a little more info like the fish scientific names, tank dimensions and filtration it will help get some kind of final stocking plan together
 
Wills

 

[Murrayjane]

Thanks for the detailed reply Wills. Dougie, I'll definitely post pictures later today.

Let me start by providing some specifics.
Tank dimensions - 6ft, 2ft, 18in
Filter - currently a Cascade 1500 canister. Going with an additional hanging filter (purchasing and installing soon) I currently do about 25% water change every 2-4 days.
By firehead I mean Vieja Synspila
I am still unsure the Texas are carpintis or cyanoguttatus

I like the look of your example stock. I am completely open to as many combinations you can, or are willing to provide.

I am already prepared to rehome certain fish such as the flowerhorn, bubble Texas, pink convict, red terrors (unless I could raise 1 female with the hope that a small combination would work).

The rest are basically down to the likely compatibility along with the individual temperment. Although this setup has only been up for 3 months, I had a majority of this stock in a 55 before for over half a year and faced virtually no problems.

Of course there will be a point where one or more fish will reach that age and start to go agro on everyone and I that is the important part of the stocking plan. I assume the jag and red terrors would be the likeliest culprits.

As for loaches and the other fish, I don't have a problem rehoming any, if all of them. I think the climbing perch in particular has an exceptional personality, probably because s/he was purchased half dead from sharing a tank with a giant pike fish. Since then it has healed nicely and actually play fights with my male jack Dempsey. When I say play I literally mean play (not sparring) Of course if it started to take that kind of abuse again I'll be more than happy to move it.

Thanks for the detailed reply Wills. Dougie, I'll definitely post pictures later today.

Let me start by providing some specifics.
Tank dimensions - 6ft, 2ft, 18in
Filter - currently a Cascade 1500 canister. Going with an additional hanging filter (purchasing and installing soon) I currently do about 25% water change every 2-4 days.
By firehead I mean Vieja Synspila

I like the look of your example stock. I am completely open to as many combinations you can, or are willing to provide.

I am already prepared to rehome certain fish such as the flowerhorn, bubble Texas, pink convict, red terrors (unless I could raise 1 female with the hope that a small combination would work).

The rest are basically down to the likely compatibility along with the individual temperment. Although this setup has only been up for 3 months, I had a majority of this stock in a 55 before for over half a year and faced virtually no problems.

Of course there will be a point where one or more fish will reach that age and start to go agro on everyone and I that is the important part of the stocking plan. I assume the jag and red terrors would be the likeliest culprits.

As for loaches and the other fish, I don't have a problem rehoming any, if all of them. I think the climbing perch in particular has an exceptional personality, probably because s/he was purchased half dead from sharing a tank with a giant pike fish. Since then it has healed nicely and actually play fights with my male jack Dempsey. When I say play I literally mean play (not sparring). They often hang out together and seem to enjoy each others company. It must be about 7 inches now. Of course if it started to take that kind of abuse again I'll be more than happy to move it.

 

[Murrayjane]

Quick video of my tank from this morning. http/youtu.be/A-5bC9uwy1k

 

[Wills]

Those are some really nice looking fish But they all look like they are going to shoot up lol!!
 
Your Texas are Carpintis I think so thats good They can grow to be a really nice fish and have the potential to be a good tempered tank mate!
 
I also didnt realise that your Red Terrors were Festaes I assumed they would be Midas type Red Terrors
 
Your Climbing Perch is also different to what I thought as well - really nice to see one of these at a good size....
 
Also your Pictus are two different species you have one very very nice Pictus and one Ornatus
 
After seeing the video its so hard to suggest rehoming any of them!! You do need to trim down your stock as they grow though Rather than me suggesting what you should do how about if you threw together a few lists you would like to keep For example there is probably an option where you keep a mix of the Jag, Syn, Texas, GT and a Festae?
 
Wills

 

[Murrayjane]

Thank you for your kind words Wills. Its really funny that you listed the syn, jag, Texas, gt, and festae as your example because that is EXACTLY what I want to keep in regards of the cichlids. I'm not sure if 5 would be too many in a 135 gallon, but I suppose that if one of the festaes is a female it may work. The jag might grow a bit too fast, but i guess we will have to see. It's very good to hear that this COULD potentially work under the right circumstances.

I do admire the dempseys, but to be honest, I feel that they are rather common in the hobby and I would certainly prioritize your example combination (my ideal combination) over keeping them.

I guess my next question would be which additional fish could be in the tank?
Say I went with this combination:
1 female festae (red terror)
1 jaguar
1 green terror
1 firehead (syn)
1 Texas (carpintis)
For the cichlids and then:

1 Senegal bichir
1 climbing perch
1 pictus catfish (nicer one)
As my other stock.

That would leave me to rehome the following:
1 pictus catfish
3 silver dollars
1 shovel nose catfish
2 jack dempseys
1 bubble Texas
1 pink convict
1 king kamfa flowerhorn
2 red terrors
1 clown loach
1 yoyo loach

Does this sound practical? Would you (or anyone else) recommend adding/switching any of them from the provided list?

Your advice is greatly appreciated!
Murray

 

[Murrayjane]

By the way Wills, what is your stock in your 135 gallon? Have any pics/vids that you could share?

 

[Wills]

It might work.... when I said keep a mix of them I dont think I meant keep all of them... but I think that list less the Jag might just work. I would 100% have target fish in there as well though to help deflect some aggression problems. Something like Buenos Aires Tetras might be a good choice given the tank mates. Which Pictus are you keeping the Ornatus or the true Pictus? The spotted one is the true Pictus. If it is the spotted one I would get 2 more as they appreciate the company and with these big bruisers crashing around above might help out. Only problem would be if you could get the Tetras at a non snack size..... It might be best to get Silver Dollars just because they are reasonably easy to find at a good size.... But they can be skittish so I think it depends on what you can find. The other option is some large Barbs which would work things like Spanner Barbs or African Black Finned Barbs would be good because they match up nicely on the temperature and water needs of the big Centrals your keeping
 
So... that would maybe be a stocking like
 
1 female festae (red terror)
1 green terror
1 firehead (syn)
1 Texas (carpintis)
 
12 Buenos Aires Tetras    OR     8 Silver Dollars      OR      8 Spanner Barbs or African Black Finned Barbs   (I think I would go for the African Black Fins personally but they are pretty rare... )
1 climbing perch
1 Senegal bichir
3 Pictus catfish
 
 
Ive not put much up about my own tank for a while, I had a big disease break out a while ago and lost a lot of my big fish Then we moved house so I rehomed some as well - I only have a light stock right now but Im about ready now for getting some more but not sure what I want - particularly worried about adding other cichlids because my Severum Lilly is quite old now about 8 and not always the most welcoming to new tank mates. My current stock list is
 
1 True Severum
1 Thread Fin Acara
5 "Giant" Tetras - Tetragonopterus sp
5 Annostomus Ternetzi 
2 Agenisous sp.
4 Dwarf Hoplos
2 Flagtail Catfish
3 Whiptails - 2 Sturisoma sp. and 1 Loricarade sp.
 
Current plans are maybe a few Satanopercas thinking Lucostica and getting them young. Got a few smaller cichlids in mind as well but depends if I can find them... Then trying to get more of the fish I already have like the Flagtails and Giant Tetras maybe adding some Marbled Headstanders as well. Finding Flagtails is always really hard though been looking for ages but when ever I go to a shop they always only have 1 left or the tank is diseased.... the two I have are from different shops lol but I think they are great
 
Wills

 

[Murrayjane]

Very sorry to hear about your previous fish loss. Though your current stock sounds great! I am sure that there is tranquility and this allows you to better enjoy the aquarium. I looked up your species of Acara and it looks fantastic! Please send me a few pics when you have the time. 
 
I was planning on keeping the true Pictus catfish and I agree that picking up a few more would help as it is currently rather docile/shy.
 
As for the dither fish, I think I would either get Buenos Aires or more Silver Dollars in order to further distribute the aggression. I will see if I can find the Spanners or African Black Finned, but as of yet, I haven't seen them in any local tropical fish shops. The additional problem is getting them at an appropriate size and the only fish that you suggested would be Silver Dollars or perhaps Buenos Aires.
 
Are their any other fish that I could get that could take the aggression without causing any increased trauma? For instance, would getting a few True Severums help in any way? Although I wouldn't want them to take up too much of the tank space as I understand how large they become, but I have heard that they are rather peaceful and they truly are remarkable appearance wise. If not Severums, are their any other brightly colored/hardy fish that could be suggested? 
 
As for my stock list, I think I will re-home all of the ones listed (except maybe the Silver Dollars) and see how the 5 Cichlids do. (Firehead, Jag, RT, GT, Texas). If any of the individuals become a problem (grow too fast, pick too many fights) I can take action. 
 
My other desired stocking option would be breeding the Dempsey's or Red Terrors, however I feel that the aquarium itself would a bit simple if I went this route. What do you guys think? 

 

[Wills]

Severums are not a dither fish like the schooling fish they are a cichlid but kind of the next tier down on the aggression scale - yours are mainly central americans which 9 out of 10 times will win with a south. The GT is a south though. You would keep Severums with things like True Parrots and Geophagus. 
 
Any large schooling fish is the criteria for a dither/ target fish in this tank. And you need to get a few so that they can school naturally around the bigger fish and create that kind of relationship with the other tank mates. Just avoid the obvious big ones like Bala Sharks and Tin Foil Barbs
 
Wills

 

[Murrayjane]

Yeah I am aware that Severums are South American cichlids, I was curious to see if they could suffice as the target fish. I guess the best option would be to expand on the silver dollars as I already have three. I think I have some structure to work with now which is great, just hoping one of the Red Terrors is female, otherwise my stock plan will certainly vary.
 
Thanks a lot for all the help Wills. This is not the first time you have come to my rescue with my Cichlid questions. You clearly possess a lot of knowledge and I will be sure to provide you with updates once I make the necessary modifications. I have an Uncle from East Yorkshire. Do they have a lot of fish dispensers over there, or do you order yours online?
 
- Murray

 

[Wills]

With target fish you want fish that wont fight back and will swim away fast where as an other Cichlid would either try and fight in vain or it would try to show submissive signs etc but against these kind of fish its get out the tank or serious damage.... You also want something big enough not to be snack size - if you wanted something different maybe pink tailed chalceus might be an option if you can find them. Some people also use large Mollies and Swordtails as well but that can get a bit mixed results as the cichlids get larger - an other option Ive just remembered are the Blind Cave Tetras they are pretty fast and grow to a decent size.
 
Small world huh we have a few shops around here but a few are not so good I usually buy dry goods from one so they stay in business lol but never got fish for them or at least for a while some of the best shops in the north of england are about 2 hours drive from me so I generally go to them for my fish The shops on my doorstep just never seem to get the fish I want in
 
Wills

 

[Murrayjane]

Definitely a fan of the Pink Tailed Chalceus. By the way, I recently found out that my King Kamfa may not actually be a KK... Based on the video I posted, do you have any idea what else it could be? Hybrid? Someone told me it was a Red Texas, though based on from what ive seen, im not sure.