12 Days Into Fishless Cycle... Huge Bloom, Massive Nitrites

[Gomez22]

Was into the hobby about 15 years ago, having Tanganyikan and Malawi cichlids. Been out for about 8 years, and decided to get back into it with some Tropicals, to start. Built my own rack for 2 20-29 gallon tanks, and currently have two 20 gallon longs in the midst of a fishless cycle. Been using straight ammonia and a bit of flake food to get the cycle started. Brought ammonia up to 4 ppm per tank. Did a 40% water change in both tanks on October 16 for high pH due to my idiotic addition of limestone.....
 
Tank #2 was started on October 6, 2015. No substrate, sponge filter and Penguin 150 HOB filter. Temp has been 79-80 F during the cycle. Today, just got first nitrite readings of 0.5 ppm. No problems so far with this tank. (I did add 2 ml of ammonia to bring the ammonia up from 1 ppm). The ph of this tank is currently reading 8.2.
 
Tank #1 was started on October 8, 2015. Using Fluorite red substrate, Penguin 150 and Hagen Aqua Clear 20 HOB filters. This tank also has an 1" airstone. Temp has been a steady 80 F. Have some plants in the tank (3 Cyperus Helferi, 6 Staurogyne Repens, 2 bunches of Bacopa Caroliniana, with more to probably come). I also have two pieces of granite in the tank. pH currently reads 8.0 in this tank.
 
Anyways, after water changes on October 16 (I had some limestone in the tanks that buffered my pH up to 8.4 - it's been removed), Tank #1 became slightly cloudy in a milky sort of way (I had just added a piece of Quartz with some mica in it - tested fine with muriatic acid earlier in the day, and also rescaped it). I chalked this up to bacterial bloom. Checked water parameters Friday night (Oct. 16) and discovered: 1 ppm ammonia, 0.25 ppm nitrite, 0.0 nitrate - I dosed ammonia back up to 4 ppm. Today (October 18) the water is much more hazy. Check the water parameters 20 minutes ago: 1 ppm ammonia, >5 ppm nitrites (API test kit only goes to 5 ppm), 5 ppm Nitrates. I dosed the ammonia back up to ~3 ppm in this tank, and removed the quartz.
 
I cycled my wife's tank six weeks ago with no problems (29 gallon cube) and am just wondering if there are any thoughts to Tank #1. These are tanks number 5 & 6 that I've had, and I've never had a bloom before, so I'm not sure if that's what this is (I've also never had plants before). These are also the first tanks I've tried a fishless cycle on. I guess I'm concerned about the huge swing I've seen in the Nitrites and the quick appearance of Nitrates (It's only been 10 days!). Anything anyone can advise me to look for? I'm using floss in both Penguin filters, with one cartridge each. Once cycled, I plan to take the carbon out of the cartridges and just use floss as a mechanical filter, leaving carbon completely out of the loop. The water from our tap reads at 7.6 pH. I have no tests for hardness available.
 
Any insight as to the condition of tank #1 would be appreciated.
 

 

[Gomez22]

Checked at 8:00 am this morning: ammonia: 0.25 ppm, Nitrites: > 5 ppm. Added 3 ml of ammonia. Checked again at 11:30 am: ammonia: 0.25 ppm. Added another 3 ml of ammonia. Decided to check Nitrates: 160 ppm. This seems screwy to me, but I'm planning on a 50% water change this evening. Never had these issues before. Wondering what could be happening?

 

[Gruntle]

Please stop dosing the ammonia back to 3ppm. You now need to wait until the nitrites start to drop.
 
Please re-read the fishless cycling article (click on the "cycling a tank" in the top ribbon) and ask any questions you may have.
 
Basically it looks like your ammonia is cycling through to nitrates (considering they're at 160ppm), but you need your nitrite bacs to reproduce process all of the nitrite. As you add more ammonia you're adding more nitrite, and your cycle will stall if they go over 16ppm (roughly), and since the test only reads to 5ppm you won't be sure what the actual reading is.
 
I would suggest a massive water change at this point, and then when you have "clean" dechlorinated water, add 3ppm of ammonia, monitor the results and post them here. Your cycle may be close to complete, but adding 6ppm of ammonia within 24 hours is pushing the envelope.
 
If you stick to the cycling recommendations (test daily from now, add ammonia ONLY when ammonia is less than 0.25ppm AND nitrite is clearly under 1ppm) we will be able to advise you. When both ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm after 24 hours, your cycle will be complete.
 
As for the cloudiness, this is likely a bacterial bloom and will settle over time. No point in trying to clear it, you'll be spending money on something that won't be effective. Time is the only cure. Some (most) new tanks get a bloom, but you can have two identical tanks beside each other in the same room and have one with a bloom and one without.

 

[Gomez22]

Please stop dosing the ammonia back to 3ppm. You now need to wait until the nitrites start to drop.
 
Please re-read the fishless cycling article (click on the "cycling a tank" in the top ribbon) and ask any questions you may have.
 
Basically it looks like your ammonia is cycling through to nitrates (considering they're at 160ppm), but you need your nitrite bacs to reproduce process all of the nitrite. As you add more ammonia you're adding more nitrite, and your cycle will stall if they go over 16ppm (roughly), and since the test only reads to 5ppm you won't be sure what the actual reading is.
 
I would suggest a massive water change at this point, and then when you have "clean" dechlorinated water, add 3ppm of ammonia, monitor the results and post them here. Your cycle may be close to complete, but adding 6ppm of ammonia within 24 hours is pushing the envelope.
 
If you stick to the cycling recommendations (test daily from now, add ammonia ONLY when ammonia is less than 0.25ppm AND nitrite is clearly under 1ppm) we will be able to advise you. When both ammonia and nitrite read 0ppm after 24 hours, your cycle will be complete.
 
As for the cloudiness, this is likely a bacterial bloom and will settle over time. No point in trying to clear it, you'll be spending money on something that won't be effective. Time is the only cure. Some (most) new tanks get a bloom, but you can have two identical tanks beside each other in the same room and have one with a bloom and one without.
 
 
 
Thanks for the reply.... I wasn't dosing back to 6 ppm. I was dosing back to 2-3 ppm. If I mis-typed, or misrepresented, I apologize; 3 ml of the ammonia I use, added to my tank(s) when they read 0.25 ppm to 0.5 ppm of ammonia gets to around 3 ppm. I did a 80% water change tonight... Waited an hour, then tested again: 0.0-0.25 ppm ammonia (Not quite zero, but very close); Nitrites: 2.0 ppm; Nitrates: 40 ppm. Added 3ml of ammonia to tank, will check in 20 minutes or so, and adjust, if needed to get it to around 2-3 ppm.
 
Other instructions I've read stated to dose ammonia to 4-5 ppm, monitor daily, re-dosing to 4-5 ppm when needed. When nitrites are seen, dose to 1-3 ppm ammonia. When ammonia reads 0.0 AND nitrites read 0.0, check nitrates. I only happened to check the nitrates as I was seeing some crazy readings in the water parameters, and my other tank's doing just fine.... maybe the plants, fluorite or another factor, but it was weird to see.
 
As far as the bloom, I really don't believe in adding anything to a tank unless it's absolutely necessary, and I wouldn't consider a bloom that necessary, but thanks for the input!

 

[fatheadminnow]

As advised above, you need to stop dosing ammonia so frequently.  You only need to dose it on the 24 hour mark.  
 
Please read this article I wrote a few years back:
 
[SIZE=12pt]Fishless cycling:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Since fish produce ammonia and since ammonia is what the Autotrophic bacteria need to start the nitrogen cycle, why can we not just buy a bottle of ammonia to simulate fish? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]*It is a really good idea to start a log of your tank for a fishless cycle.*  So for each day you take a reading of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH, you can then put that in your log so you can see how the cycle is coming along.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 1:[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]  Buy a bottle of ammonia, usually ammonia comes in bottles with 9.5% or 10% diluted ammonia, both will work. Ammonia like this can usually be found at your local hardware store.  What is very important about what ammonia you select is that it must only contain ammonia and water.  Other additives will hinder the ammonia useless and will not allow the bacteria to grow.  If the bottle of ammonia does not list ingredients, then that bottle of ammonia is most likely okay to use, but to make sure give the bottle a good shake.  If the ammonia foams up, it is no good.  If there are a few air bubbles, then that is nothing to worry about.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 2: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Add up to 5 ppm of ammonia to your tank by looking at the table below.  It is very important that you add the ammonia on a 24 hour schedule. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Note: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]If your tank size does not appear, then simply choose the tank size that is closest to yours.  Slight variations like this will not matter all that much.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 3: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Check the ammonia level by using your test kit to make sure you have added the correct amount of ammonia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 4: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Check the ammonia level every day at the 24 hour mark.  If the ammonia at the 24 hour mark starts to go down, this means that you are starting to colonize bacteria that process ammonia.  At which point the nitrite level will begin to rise.  You can then use your nitrite test kit to monitor your nitrite level.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 5: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]At the 24 hour mark, if your ammonia level is nearing 0 ppm, add ammonia back up to 5 ppm.  You will soon see that your ammonia level is dropping faster and faster and that your nitrite level is rising.  Over time, after adding ammonia back up to 5 ppm at the 24 hour mark for a couple weeks, you will begin to see your ammonia level will soon go down and hit 0 ppm at every 24 hour mark and your nitrite will be either rising, or starting to fall.  At this point your nitrate will start to rise.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 6:  [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]If your ammonia and nitrite are at 0 ppm every 24 hours, then it is time to start taking ammonia and nitrite readings every 12 hours.  So let’s say you add ammonia back up to 5 ppm at the 24 hour mark, and then 12 hours later you test your ammonia and nitrite, this is where you will be able to tell if your tank is cycled or not.  At this point, your nitrate level will be at a pretty high level, but do not worry about this yet.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]NOTE:[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] It is VERY important to ONLY add ammonia at the original 24 hour mark!  Not the 12 hour mark!  If you are reading 0 ppm of ammonia at 12 hours, then wait until the 24 hour mark (12 hours later) to add ammonia back up to 5 ppm.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 7:[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Once your tank is reading 0 ppm of ammonia and 0 ppm of nitrite at 12 hours, (12 hours after the 24 hour mark) you are nearly there!  At this point, continue dosing ammonia up to 5 ppm at the 24 hour mark for one more week!  This last week is called the “qualification week.”  During this week you may have a slight nitrite spike; this is why you should always perform the “qualifying week.”  Once the week is over, and you are getting both 0 ppm of ammonia and 0 ppm of nitrite (double 0’s) then you are cycled![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Step 8: [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]Now do a 90% water change, this is to lower the level of nitrate.  Add water back up to full in your tank and add the proper amount of water conditioner.  Then you are ready to add your full stocking of fish![/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Here is a little example on what I mean about the 24 and 12 hour marks.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Let’s say you start your fishless cycle at 8:00 pm.  This means you add your first batch of ammonia up to 5 ppm.  The next time you check your ammonia level then would be the following day at 8:00 pm (24 hour later, hence the “24 hour mark”).  When your ammonia level starts to drop near 0 ppm at the 24 hour mark (8:00 pm) then go ahead and dose the ammonia back up to 5 ppm.  If you are consistently getting a reading of 0 ppm of ammonia every 24 hours after you have added the ammonia back up to 5 ppm the following day, then go ahead and start test for ammonia at 12 hours.  EX. Add ammonia up to 5 ppm at 8:00 pm, then at 8:00 am check the level of ammonia.  If the level of ammonia is at 0 ppm at 8:00 am, DO NOT add ammonia until the 24 hour mark (8:00 pm).[/SIZE]

 

[Gomez22]

Ammonia at 0.0 ppm for the second day in a row now for both tanks. Tank #2 still having a bloom. Have taken almost all plants out, as they all started melting/dying; only have some dwarf hairgrass and bacoppa in there now. Thinking of dosing again tomorrow, maybe up to 2-3 ppm of ammonia. I've read so many differing techniques of fishless cycling over the last month, I may be confusing myself at this point.

 

[fatheadminnow]

It's a good idea not to have any plants in the tank while cycling it.  Glad to hear ammonia is dropping.  Just keep at it and it will work you.

 

[Gruntle]

What's your nitrite reading? It's recommended not to re-dose ammonia until the nitrites are clearly below 1ppm. Your ammonia bacs will be fine if they have no ammonia for a few days.
 
If you follow the cycling article in the strip on top of the page ("Cycling a Tank") you should have no issues. It clearly sets out the what, how and why of fishless cycling and I've followed it twice with excellent results.

 

[fatheadminnow]

What's your nitrite reading? It's recommended not to re-dose ammonia until the nitrites are clearly below 1ppm. Your ammonia bacs will be fine if they have no ammonia for a few days.
 
If you follow the cycling article in the strip on top of the page ("Cycling a Tank") you should have no issues. It clearly sets out the what, how and why of fishless cycling and I've followed it twice with excellent results.

 
I don't fully agree with the fishless cycling article they have here on the site, that is why I posted my article above which I pulled directly out of my book.  I'm not saying it won't work because it will.  I'm saying is that it's not very clear and after reading it I can see why some people may still have questions.  
 
Also, I've always added 5ppm of ammonia, not 3, and here's why:
 
5ppm of ammonia represents a fully stocked tank of fish.  It doesn't matter what size tank you have because the larger the tank the larger the does of ammonia.  If you properly follow stocking guidelines for tanks you will see that 5ppm is about the output all the fish will have on that tank.
 
So when we dose up to 5ppm of ammonia we are actually representing a fully stocked tank of fish.  Why is this good?  After the cycle is complete, you can actually add all the fish you want in your tank and not worry about ammonia or nitrite spikes.  Adding 3ppm of ammonia, instead of 5ppm, does not represent a fully stocked tank.  So, if you use 3ppm and you finish the cycle and you go and add a full stock of fish to your tank you may actually end up in a fish-in cycle ( no good, lol).
 
My fishless cycling guide has been proven worthy for years ( almost 10 years) with dozens and dozens of happy customers.  Although I probably should re-work it a bit and add some pictures lol.
 
Also; during your fishless cycle when your ammonia goes to 0ppm and you want to add more but your nitrite is still high, you can dose more ammonia.  I have yet to have any scenarios where this didn't work.  I wish I knew where I had it, but actually "starving" you BAC's; they do die off at a pretty fast rate.  And if you starve them for a few days (again I need to find this info) you're probably look at around 60%-70% BAC's of what you had.  Keep in mind, when you have fish in the tank, there is always a constant source of ammonia.  Ammonia is a natural disputation from having fish.  Yes ammonia comes from rotting food and fish waste, etc.., but the majority of ammonia comes from respiration (when the fish breathes). 
 
The one thing you do not want to over-dose is ammonia.  Usually ammonia over 8ppm we will start to inhabit the "wrong" type of bacteria in our filters.  Usually when this happens a fishless cycle begins out going well and all of a sudden it just stops, dead, in it's tracks.  You take readings and see your ammonia is off the charts.  So make sure you just dose up to 5ppm of ammonia.

 
If you would like to follow my proven fishless cycle guide, it's posted above.  Feel free to shoot me any messages with questions you may have.

 
But like I said, the fishless cycling article posted on this site will work just fine for you.  I just find it leaves some "gray" area and you may have more questions after reading it.  Either way, just post here with any questions you have and we will be more than happy to assist you.

 

[Gomez22]

For me, what sometimes gets confusing is the different methods that can (and mostly will) work for fishless cycling. I learned NOT to put plants in my tanks, as I lost quite a few plants, but had seen numerous articles and (other) forum posts stating that plants are fine for fishless cycling. Mine all melted and died, and I have a hunch that contributed to my bacterial bloom. Going to take readings soon, and will probably dose ammonia up to 3-4 ppm.

 

[fatheadminnow]

For me, what sometimes gets confusing is the different methods that can (and mostly will) work for fishless cycling. I learned NOT to put plants in my tanks, as I lost quite a few plants, but had seen numerous articles and (other) forum posts stating that plants are fine for fishless cycling. Mine all melted and died, and I have a hunch that contributed to my bacterial bloom. Going to take readings soon, and will probably dose ammonia up to 3-4 ppm.

 
Yes, having plants in during a cycle is not a good idea.  Plants will actually use the ammonia and nitrate as a source of nutrients.  So plants will skew your results or stop your cycle all together. 

 

[Gomez22]

Ammonia for both tanks tested 0.0 ppm and Nitrites for both were at 5.0 ppm. I decided to dose both tanks to 4.0 ppm ammonia. Will check ammonia levels (and maybe Nitrites) again tomorrow...

 

[fatheadminnow]

Yep.  Allow the tank to run it's course.  Check tomorrow around the same time.

Feel free to open the attached link on the ebook I wrote about fish keeping.  

 

[Gomez22]

Both tanks read:
 
Ammonia: 0.0 ppm
Nitrites: 5.0 ppm

 

[fatheadminnow]

What time yesterday did you dose the ammonia?  Wait until that time again today and dose again. (25 hours)