Would My Idea For A Sump Work ?

[nick1200]

Ok so i have a 4ft tropical tank and want to add a sump to it.The tank sits on a table which has 2 cupboards which are both very small. So i was thinking of having two sumps one sump in each. Here is a image of the table / tank.

The inside of each cupboard is 11inch across by 16inch high and 8 inc back. I have been told by my LFS that one sump that size would not make any big effect so would be best to make both cupboards into a sump. They also told me i could buy very strong see though plastic boxes for the sumps seen has they would only be holding 55 litters each.
I was thinking that the plastic box idea would be good because id have to drill a hole in the one to put the pipe to go to the other sump.

The problem is that i can get the pipe to go down the back of the tank into the on sump in the left cupboard but then im stuck with how to get the water to go over to the other sump in the right cupboard because i they are on the same height so i can't use a scythen effect like with the down pipe.

so here is my idea which i drew up in paint.

Was just thinking would this work ?? Im guessing the main part would be the connecter at the back which would be the main part ?Would it be a waste of time doing this project ? I mean are the cupboards to small ?

 

[Chad]

If they are connected to each other in the middle, even with a pipe, it's really just one sump. I tried two sumps under my 210 and it was impossible for me to get the flow in and out synchronized right. One would fill up too much while the other would drain too much and no matter how much I played with the flow the setting was too delicate to keep running for long. I would get a day out of it then evaporation would alter it all.

The way around that is to do what your diagram looks like it does and have drain at one end, pump at the other and a pipe connecting them both to each other. The only issue to be sure about is that the pipe in the middle has a large enough diameter so that the flow through is as great as the drains from the tank and that it doesn't get clogged. Being horizontal this is more of a fear than with a vertical pipe.

 

[ColR1948]

I'm not in to sumps but can you not use the middle bit and have a a tank there, may be add a door/front to it later to hide it?

 

[nick1200]

If they are connected to each other in the middle, even with a pipe, it's really just one sump. I tried two sumps under my 210 and it was impossible for me to get the flow in and out synchronized right. One would fill up too much while the other would drain too much and no matter how much I played with the flow the setting was too delicate to keep running for long. I would get a day out of it then evaporation would alter it all.

The way around that is to do what your diagram looks like it does and have drain at one end, pump at the other and a pipe connecting them both to each other. The only issue to be sure about is that the pipe in the middle has a large enough diameter so that the flow through is as great as the drains from the tank and that it doesn't get clogged. Being horizontal this is more of a fear than with a vertical pipe.

Thanks do you think the the size of the 2 sumps would be enough to help the tank ? Because i was thinking they would be very small... And id have to find a way of getting has much filter media into them has i can im guessing. So would have to come up with some huge idea to make has many sections in the sump has i can im guessing ? I have worked out the two sumps together would be 55 litters. Would sounds good for a 172 Litter tank. I have a 1300 Litter pump to go into the sump and a 1300 overflow ready.

I'm not in to sumps but can you not use the middle bit and have a a tank there, may be add a door/front to it later to hide it?

If i toke the center bit out then the cupboard would move side to side. I contacted the people who made the cupboard and have been told the middle self helps support the weight so...

 

[Chad]

I had a very similar stand to yours...I ended up putting a larger sump on the floor next to the tank. You can see in this picture where it sits on the left side and returns right there. The sides and the middle are pretty small areas and I couldn't find a good sized container to be the sump that would still house my heater and skimmer like I wanted. It's such a limiting space that I gave up trying to use it. You might have better luck. If you could just get 20 gallons total volume out of each side that would be enough but hiding the equipment might be harder in that space. You could also use the middle and make that part of the display something nice to look at.

 

[nick1200]

I had a very similar stand to yours...I ended up putting a larger sump on the floor next to the tank. You can see in this picture where it sits on the left side and returns right there. The sides and the middle are pretty small areas and I couldn't find a good sized container to be the sump that would still house my heater and skimmer like I wanted.

I have a 2 year old running around tho so would make it hard. My cupboards have child proof latches on which came with the stand so you can't open them all the way with open pressing a button in side. I was thinking if i did the 2 cupboards has sumps id need to put a lot of silicone around the one pipe which goes to the both sumps... I also live in a up stairs flat so scared of it leaking and wetting the neighbors heads

. I had a 350L tank in my living room which weight around 73 stone be for and was fine for a year then i got rid of it because i was having a lot of sleepness nights worrying that it could go though so down graded to a 220L ( was sold has a 220L ) But measured the tank and worked out to be 170L I have worked out with the two sumps it would weigh around 35 stone so still no were near the 73 stone. So kind of not scared of the floor going though just scared of leaks...
I was gonna get 2 50L plastic boxes and then start by adding the main pipe going from one to the other and make a hole in the both put the pipe in and silcone it in to both of them and then fill it up and leave it to see if it leaks for a few days and then put sections into it and go from there

Also would i need to add a heater to each sump or could i just use the one in the tank ? I have a huge one in the tank So thought i wouldn't need one...

 

[Chad]

You could get away with using a 5 US gallon bucket for a sump but that isn't big enough to house your skimmer, though you could do a heater in there and put a reactor or two around it. To me, even a small sump is better than nothing as you can grow cheatomorpha algae in there which I've found to be very beneficial as a filter and pH balancer. If you did the two connected sumps one heater should be plenty. If it fits the one in the tank would come out of the tank proper and go into the sump. If you use a plastic bucket I'm not sure if it can take the heat so that might change things but glass will work. As for the pipe between your two if you do it that way the best bet would be to drill each tank and use a bulkhead between them. They are designed for this and other similar applications and won't leak on you.

 

[nick1200]

Yer i was thinking if i buy two glass tanks i would need to keep resealing them.Also id have to drill a hole in each of them. Itryied to drill a hole into a fish tank be for and the whole fish tank smashed into a million bits. I worked out that the inside side cupboard dimensions are 11 inch a cross 16 inch deep and 8 inch going back. Which would hold 22.5 litter of water each sump so would have 55 litter sump with them both connected together which would be 14 us gallons which is rubbish right ?? And them im guessing id need to leave room for the down pipe to come into the cupboard which would make the sump smaller...

 

[Chad]

Drilling requires that the glass not be tempered and the drill area be kept wet as you drill. It's not something I do because of just what happened to you but a glass shop should be able to do it. I have a 20 gallon long tank on my 210 gallon tank. So you can see that's less than 10% of the tank's size and it works just great so it doesn't have to be something huge to be functional as a sump.

 

[nick1200]

I just had a look at the table and i could have 2 sumps in the middle. I can't take out the middle bit but could have one on top and one under neath and then two in the cupboards But then im guessing then there is a high chance of it all leaking ? More pipes meaning more risks ?
Here is my second idea donno if the 1st idea or 2nd idea is better ?

Has you maybe be able to sell id have to drill 4 hole in the stand for the pipes to get into the middle sections...
So there would be two sumps in the middle connected to the two in the cupboard .

Donno what you think ??

 

[Chad]

If you are willing to modify the stand, if that can be done safely, then you could do all sorts of things. I don't worry too much about leaks anymore. The only time I ever had one was while constructing the plumbing so I was ready to shut it all down and had a towel ready (always have your towel) but once it's all set up I've never had a leak.

 

[nick1200]

Yer well i have had another measure of things and had a look at were the bolts are sections. I have notice the center shelf is solid there and has been glues so can not take the center shelf out but noticed that the back of the stand is hollow and just plywood so i wouldn't need to drill a hole in the stand. Here is my plan for plan two

My drawing is rubbish i know but shows how id do plan two.The two middle sumps would be on show which would be nice

Then of course the center shelf will be between the two sumps
Each of the center sumps would be 26 liters so that would be 50 liters for the two in the 22 + 22 for the ones in the curboard + 26 + 26 which would make it a 96 liter sump. but then id have 260 liters of water in a up stairs flat .... Boom....

 

[Chad]

Hope the chat and the links helped. Let me know how it all turns out!

 

[nick1200]

ive just pmed u with a link to a you tube video. Which says that hang over over flows fail because when air gets into them they stop and then the pump in the sump will pump the water from the sump into the fish tank and then your fish tank will overflow with water...
Is there anyway to make sure that no air gets into the overflow ?

 

[Chad]

Here's my answer so others can see it just in case they have the same questions you do.

The video says that HOB overflows stop easily...here's my reply.

That's not 100% true. I would say SOME HOB overflows stop easily. That's why I picked the one I did, it has a good reputation for not stopping and in the several years I used it it never stopped once.

The second thing he doesn't address is that you can use a float valve on your pump so that it automatically turns off if the water level in the sump gets too low. This means if the siphon breaks the pump will only pump so much before it shuts down. So, no flood. The other way you can do it, depending on the pump, is to put a bit of pipe on the pump (this is what I did) and if the water level in the sump gets below that pipe the pump just sucks air. No flood.

Certainly drilling a tank is ideal, that's why when I purchased my 210 gallon tank I made sure it was drilled but if you don't have that option HOB overflows work well.