When can I say my betta gets along with my other fish

[NessMr]

Hi,
I'm new here and hope I find some people who can help me. It's the first time for me to have fish and as stupid as I was I trusted the pet store. So I had a 45l tank mixed with a betta and 2 tiger barbs and a few other smaller fish. They died because of my tiger barbs attacking them a lot. After losing all fish except for the barbs I returned them and asked at different stores what fish I can keep together.
So that's how I ended up with a 55-60l tank with a male betta, 6 Guppies, 1 orange Balloon Molly and 3 Angels. They live together since 3 weeks and the only thing that happened was, that my Guppies were sorting out who the boss is. They were biting their fins. But they are already growing back and now there is no fighting or fin nipping happening.
What would you guys say about my mix? Is it possible to have a betta that gets along with other fish like mine?
When I Feed them they don't mind eating next to each other and I also know that my betta has his own little corner and that's where he sleeps. But he doesnt mind the angel or guppies swimming or sleeping there too. Sometimes he is telling Garfield (my Molly) off. About there is no biting and Garfield just moved away and looks for food somewhere else. Seems to be the only thing he is doing while waiting for actual food.
I know the tank is to small for my fish when they grow. But I will move interstate in January next year and I will buy a bigger tank then. Thought about 120-150l.
I have to say I keep an good eye on them since the problems before. And I really don't wanna bring any fish back, because you do start liking them.
So question again, do you think all this could work? Or any tips for making my fish's live better?
Thanks!

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

My first recommendation is to return the angelfish. Not only is a 15 gallon (45 liter) tank insufficient space, so will be the 150 liter. You cannot have three angelfish in these tanks; and before you say it, yes, they may "seem" to get along, but assuming the fish are normal and healthy this is not going to last, guaranteed.

Second recommendation is to keep the Betta alone in its own tank. This is not a community fish. And guppies is one of the worst fish to have in with a Betta regardless. You may think they are fine now, but this can suddenly change too. Separate the Betta.

The mollies must have moderately hard to hard water. What is the GH, KH and pH of your source water? This is crucial to their health.

You experience previously should tell you that there is no way to change fish behaviours, these are programmed into the fish's DNA through evolution. We can only research and provide accordingly if we want healthy and "happy" fish.

Byron.

 

[NessMr]

What size tank is the minimum die 3 angelfish? Atm they're 4cm, but I know they get a lot bigger.

The pH is always around 7.5 and no ammonia. I let a pet store next door check all the other things and they know what fish I have and they never mentioned anything negative. They said perfectly fine for those fish.

I have heard from a few people who kept bettas for years, that they don't have any problems with them in a community tank. That's why I thought I try it. There is no fin nipping and like I said the betta swims alongside with the others. So that doesnt seem territorial at all. Is there anytjing I may not see? I check my fish several times day to see if anyone got hurt.
I also read a few things in this forum so I know that some bettas are territorial and attacking other fish.
I would have definitly separated him when no one have ever told me that you can do it. Depends on your fish's character. You're right with the dna thing. Didnt think about that. But it's so hard for me to believe when you see them together. I still have the 45l tank. It would break my heart to remove him, because they look all healthy and happy together. I just hope that mine is like one of the other guy's bettas. The exceptation for the rule or however you call it. I may think to sentimental about this.

 

[NessMr]

I just thought about it. Sorry for the second reply after my long message.
I could try to separate an area in the tank for my betta. Like those hanging nurse boxes or nets, right?
Could that be a solution for the betta?
Thanks for your help already..

 

[Byron]

What size tank is the minimum die 3 angelfish? Atm they're 4cm, but I know they get a lot bigger.

Angelfish attain 6 inches/15 cm body length, with a vertical fin span of 8 inches/20cm. One lone angelfish would survive in a 30 gallon tank, but this is not the whole story. Angelfish are by nature shoaling fish that live in small groups (small meaning around 10-12 as opposed to the groups of hundreds for cories, tetras, etc). They are territorial and develop an hierarchy within the group. They need space for all this, at least a 4-foot (120 cm) tank for a group of five or six, but preferably a larger tank. A breeding pair, meaning a male/female that have selected each other from the group and bonded, can be housed in a smaller tank solely for breeding.

Fish also need sufficient space to develop properly. This has two aspects, the physical space in which the fish lives, and the water quality which is obviously related to the space. It does not take long for fish in too small a spasce to begin to have internal development problems, and these are irreversible, and lead to increased health issues and a shorter than normal lifespan. This is well documented.

So, three is not a good number; it should be five or more, unless you have a bonded breeding pair, or a single angelfish. I will not recommend a single angelfish because I do not believe we should force fish in such an unnatural environment. This brings me to something that will apply to the other questions you've raised too: while "x" can "work," it is not in the best interests of the fish. A fish surviving in the inappropriate setting we give it is not the same as a fish thriving in an aquarium properly set up for the fish species. As aquarists we should always aim for the latter if we care about our fish.

The pH is always around 7.5 and no ammonia. I let a pet store next door check all the other things and they know what fish I have and they never mentioned anything negative. They said perfectly fine for those fish.

Every member on this forum will warn you about trusting advice from fish store employees. There are some exceptions, but generally they are there to sell fish to make a profit, and their level of knowledge may be minimal or even non-existent. The internet and forums like TFF are essential these days.

"Perfectly fine" for the selection of fish species going into a 15g tank proves the above; this is terrible advice. Enough said on that.

You can check the website of your municipal water authority (if you are on municipal water) as they may post water data. It is essential to know the GH (general hardness, total hardness) as this directly impacts many fish. Fish have preferences for soft water or harder water, depending upon their physiology; they evolved over thousands of years to function best in their environment, and none of us is going to alter nature to this degree. It is much easier and safer to select fish species suited to your source water; adjusting water parameters is possible, but complicated.

The KH is carbonate hardness or Alkalinity, and may show in the data. This is less critical, but does function as a buffer to prevent pH from fluctuating, so it is worth knowing. The pH is related to the GH/KH and while important is less so than the GH. A ppH of 7.5 is slightly basic (basic means above 7.0, acidic is below 7.0) and fine for many fish, but untill we know the GH we can't say much more about mollies.

I have heard from a few people who kept bettas for years, that they don't have any problems with them in a community tank. That's why I thought I try it. There is no fin nipping and like I said the betta swims alongside with the others. So that doesnt seem territorial at all. Is there anytjing I may not see? I check my fish several times day to see if anyone got hurt.
I also read a few things in this forum so I know that some bettas are territorial and attacking other fish.
I would have definitly separated him when no one have ever told me that you can do it. Depends on your fish's character. You're right with the dna thing. Didnt think about that. But it's so hard for me to believe when you see them together. I still have the 45l tank. It would break my heart to remove him, because they look all healthy and happy together. I just hope that mine is like one of the other guy's bettas. The exceptation for the rule or however you call it. I may think to sentimental about this.

This varying opinion is not going to change anytime soon among aquarists. Individual fish can behave contrary to the norm for the species, this occurs in most all animals as in humans. However, as aquarists we must understand and accept that each species of freshwater fish has evolved for a very specific environment, and if we want the best we must be prepared to provide accordingly. Environment here means water parameters, tank size, decor, numbers of the species, suitable species in a community tank, proper foods. This is the only way to succeed with healthy fish that behave normally, and normal behaviours and interactions in fish is one of the true joys of this hobby. I have sat for hours watching two loaches play "tag" through tunnels in chunks of bogwood; Congo Tetra in pairs and sometimes a trio running relays; two loaches doing the "loach dance" for hours. You won't see such behaviours without providing the basic necessities for the fish species. Read the green and blue citations in my signature block.

As responsible aquarists, we learn to accept the "norm" for a species, and not risk harming the fish by thinking we can somehow change it to suit our own desires. Sometimes it seems to work; the fish may not be "normal" for the species, or it may be harmed in some way that changes its behaviours. But so often the fish down the road suddenly "snaps" and dead fish are the result. We cannot change nature, so it is best for the fish if we do not even try to change it.

I have 8 tanks in my dedicated fish room. I have a couple of times acquired fish that "should" have been good for a community tank, but for some reason they were not; I have the tanks so I can move them around to some degree. Sometimes this happens immediately, and the fish can go back to the store. But sometimes it may be weeks, even months later, and then without some back-up plan the fish must be euthanized or given away (not always easy). Going against the norm in the hopes it will work can lead to very difficult decisions. If one fish becomes a bully, it can terrorize the whole tank. Is that fair to all the other fish? I don't think so.

 

[Byron]

I just thought about it. Sorry for the second reply after my long message.
I could try to separate an area in the tank for my betta. Like those hanging nurse boxes or nets, right?
Could that be a solution for the betta?
Thanks for your help already..

No. That is like keeping the Betta in those cups in the store. A 5 gallon tank is not very expensive, and with a Betta you really don't need a filter with some floating plants. A heater yes.

 

[**sarahp**]

Hi, welcome to the forum

as stupid as I was I trusted the pet store.

I let a pet store next door check all the other things and they know what fish I have and they never mentioned anything negative. They said perfectly fine for those fish..

my Guppies were sorting out who the boss is. They were biting their fins.

Are you sure they were doing it to each other, it may have been the betta.

Is it possible to have a betta that gets along with other fish like mine?

Personally, I'd say somewhere between Bob and No (Hope)

Please listen to what Byron is telling you. He's not saying it just for the fun of it. The mix of fish that you have right now is a disaster waiting to happen Byron has give you some very sound advice, if you really want to make your fishes lives better you will return the angels, move your betta to an individual tank of at least 2.5 gallons (I prefer 10 but that's me wanting the best for my fish) and find out how hard your water is so that we can advise on the best stocking for your current tank. (Having fish that you know will need a bigger tank in the future is not the wisest thing as circumstances change and the fish don't always get their shiny, new tank.)

 

[FroFro]

Or any tips for making my fish's live better?
Thanks!

Move your betta to a tank of at least 5 gallons. Not 2.5, ever! The minimum a betta can live in happily
and exhibit its full range of natural behaviors when in a stable environment is FIVE gallons. Some on here say 2.5, but thats surviving not thriving. I had the same idea for my first betta. My reasoning was along the lines of "oh the 2.5 is decent size and cheaper than that 5 gallon kit, I'll get this one." My betta was extremely reclusive and would never greet me when I'd come into the room, not even for feeding time. He'd wait till I was out of sight to eat. Once I got him a 5 gallon and had it cycled the change was drastic, you'd of thought he was a totally different fish!

You can get a cheapy 5 gallon kit for about 30$ for example this one https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Cul...75035&wl11=online&wl12=20693704&wl13=&veh=sem
Or you can get a nice looking one (if you like bowfronts like I do) like this one for example:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WR2IZ8/?tag=ff0d01-20

I don't know why its so expensive for the second one on amazon, i found it for 45$ retail at my local petsmart, the point is that there are plenty of options for your betta to live in a 5 gallon or larger (go 10 if you want!) just PLEASE don't go for the 2.5, your betta will thank you in the long run for the extra room!