What is a good (& reasonably priced), filter for a dirted, planted 10 gallon tank?

[Rocksie]

Hi! We have a 20 gallon tall tank with 4 Glo-fish Danios (3 Electric Green, 1 Sunburst Orange), 6 platies (2 Sunburs Wags, 2 Red Mickey Mouse, 2 Red Wags -- 1 Red Wag is looking poorly, staying on the bottom of the tank), and (long story), a baby Black Lyre-tailed Molly.

I had wanted to set it up as a dirted planted tank but hubby went ahead and put gravel and water in and popped fish in. So I have been playing catch-up trying to learn about the nitrogen cycle as fast as possible, etc.

I got a bit panicky early on about the ammonia levels. I bought Ammo-chips and aquarium salts for recharging the chips. I read on the salts container that adding salt to tank water is beneficial for the fishes' gills so (still panicking), I added a small amount of salt. But THEN I read that having salt in the water negates the benefits of ammo-chips and causes the chips to release the ammonia back into the water! I've done several water changes since my panicky salt shenanigans.

Our tap water (well water), is VERY hard (pH 7.4), and the test strip still registers the top level of GH measurable but the KH has dropped radically from what it used to read. So I'm panicking again.
Advice?

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

I am more inclined to think the fish problem is a cycling one, with ammonia or nitrite, rather than KH. What is the test number for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, if you have these tests? And how long has the aquarium been running with fish in it? Do you do water changes, and if yes, how much and how often?

The GH and KH are closely connected and while I am not a chemist and can't rule out what you describe, I wouldn't expect the KH to drop "radically." Could you provide the test numbers? And can you confirm the GH and KH of your tap water by checking these on the municipal water authority's website? If you are on city/town water, the water authority likely has a website with water data posted.

While waiting for that, as you are learning, the solution to resolve problems is rarely adding more substances. Water chemistry is a very complex subject, and all sorts of reactions can occur when one substance is added.

Byron.

 

[Rocksie]

Thank you for replying to my question and for the welcome! I bought a Freshwater Master Test Kit but got scared of the chemicals due to all the warnings. Should I not be so spooked by them? Do I need to wear gloves and goggles?

I have the API 5 in 1 Test strips, which I know aren't the best most accurate way to test, but the water both from the tap and in the tank used to indicate 180 ppm for GH and180 ppm for KH. Recently the KH of the tank water started reading at 40 ppm while the GH stayed at 180.

My understanding of the nitrogen cycle is wobbly. Do levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate naturally vary? Cycling can change KH?

Our direct-from-the-tap well water is testing out on the strip as 180 ppm GH, 180 ppm KH, 7.5 pH, and 0 nitrite/nitrate.

I just did a 25% water change and added Ammo-Lock, Stress-Zyme, Stress-Coat, and Quick-Start.

I have 2 clumps of Annubias nanna, 7 Amazon Sword plants, and a water onion. The swords are not very established yet. The annubias and water onion are fairly established. I intend to get some water sprite and float it to absorb additional nutrients from the water.

Am I heading in the right direction?

 

[Byron]

I bought a Freshwater Master Test Kit but got scared of the chemicals due to all the warnings. Should I not be so spooked by them? Do I need to wear gloves and goggles?

No. I have been using the API liquid tests for many years. Just be careful not to spill the regents on anything including yourself, and if you do, wash with hot water and soap. It takes a bit of practice to get drops at the right number sometimes, just go slow.

I have the API 5 in 1 Test strips, which I know aren't the best most accurate way to test, but the water both from the tap and in the tank used to indicate 180 ppm for GH and180 ppm for KH. Recently the KH of the tank water started reading at 40 ppm while the GH stayed at 180.

My understanding of the nitrogen cycle is wobbly. Do levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate naturally vary? Cycling can change KH?

Our direct-from-the-tap well water is testing out on the strip as 180 ppm GH, 180 ppm KH, 7.5 pH, and 0 nitrite/nitrate.

I wouldn't worry about the KH (can't explain it, but this is not likely the issue anyway). You haven't indicated how long this tank has been running, so I will assume it is fairly new, and you probably have ammonia issues. Nitrite will appear (it is just as deadly as ammonia). As there are fish in the tank, you will just have to work around this.

Cycling refers to the process of establishing the nitrifying bacteria. Fish produce ammonia in respiration (not in urine as in humans, for example), and any organics being broken down (the fish excrement, dead fish or plant matter, etc) also produces ammonia. Ammonia is highly toxic at very low numbers, but it takes time for nature to establish the bacteria that use this ammonia; your plants if they are growing will use much of it, so they are a plus here. When the ammonia oxidizing bacteria are established, they take up ammonia and produce nitrite, also toxic. Another set of bacteria will appear to take up nitrite, and they produce nitrate. All of this can take 2-8 weeks normally.

Do you have a test for ammonia? Use it daily, in the morning if possible. I'll come back to the ammonia below.

I just did a 25% water change and added Ammo-Lock, Stress-Zyme, Stress-Coat, and Quick-Start.

Do larger water changes, about half the tank volume. Use only the Ammo-lock. This detoxifies ammonia by changing it into ammonium which is basically harmless, and the plants and bacteria will take it up readily same as ammonia. As the API site says, your ammonia test will still show "ammonia" because the tests do not differentiate between ammonia and ammonium.

You do not need StressZyme, it will not benefit anything here, and is actually slightly detrimental because it is one more chemical substance getting into the fish. I won't bog this down further. Don't use StressCoat either; your AmmoLock will deal with chlorine and chloramine, so this is just more chemical for no benefit. Plus it contains aloe vera which is now believed to affect fish gills. Put both these bottles away.

Quick Start can't hurt to get the bacteria started a bit faster, but once it is used up, don't get more, it won't be needed. I wouldn't use it at all, but as you have it, there should be no harm.

With these additives, follow the directions and do not over-dose any of them.

I have 2 clumps of Annubias nanna, 7 Amazon Sword plants, and a water onion. The swords are not very established yet. The annubias and water onion are fairly established. I intend to get some water sprite and float it to absorb additional nutrients from the water.
Am I heading in the right direction?

Yes with respect to the plants, which as I said above will save your fish in the cycling.

 

[Rocksie]

Thank you for being so helpful to a panicky newbie, Byron! I appreciate your help and advice!

Oh my gosh! I didn't know Stress-Coat was bad?! Is Prime any better?

Should I do a 30 - 50% water change to get some of the Stress-Coat out of the tank?!!

I guess I should just calm down and stop fiddling with the chemistry and let the plants and bacteria take care of things as they should. Just ordered some more plants too.

 

[Byron]

Thank you for being so helpful to a panicky newbie, Byron! I appreciate your help and advice!

Oh my gosh! I didn't know Stress-Coat was bad?! Is Prime any better?

Should I do a 30 - 50% water change to get some of the Stress-Coat out of the tank?!!

I guess I should just calm down and stop fiddling with the chemistry and let the plants and bacteria take care of things as they should. Just ordered some more plants too.

Yes to your last paragraph here. Stores and manufacturers lead us to assume that we need to be dumping stuff in the water left, right and centre in order to have a healthy aquarium. But that is not the way to do it. Letting nature handle things is always easier, safer and in the end more effective.

Water changes are rarely detrimental, but at the same time the fish don't appreciate us continually bashing about in their home. If you haven't overdosed these things, I wouldn't worry, just don't keep using some of them.

As for Prime, this is a conditioner that also shouldn't be over-dosed. Ammo-Lock also deals with chlorine and chloramine, and ammonia. Prime does this, plus it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. If you should see nitrite in the tests, Prime would be a better conditioner instead of Ammo-Lock. Both detoxify ammonia by changing it to ammonium. Prime goes the next step and binds nitrite, but unless you have nitrite (and this may not appear with your plants) I wouldn't switch over. If I try to explain more, it will get bogged down in technicalities and that isn't necessary.

Byron.

 

[ShinySideUp]

pH is a measure of acidity not hardness. You have a ph of 7.4 -- this is not out of the ordinary and shows the water to be on the alkali side of 7.0 which is fine for most common tropicals; what disturbs them more is a constantly changing pH.

Since your water comes from a well it is unlikely to contain chlorine.

My advice is to change 60 to 70% of your water every couple of days, more often if any ammonia is not coming down quickly. Don't change anything in the filter, just wash out in tank water if you need to to keep water flowing.

Other than that, do nothing. Don't add anything apart from fresh water and just wait -- the filter bacteria know what to do if they are given time to multiply.

 

[Rocksie]

Yes to your last paragraph here. Stores and manufacturers lead us to assume that we need to be dumping stuff in the water left, right and centre in order to have a healthy aquarium. But that is not the way to do it. Letting nature handle things is always easier, safer and in the end more effective.

Water changes are rarely detrimental, but at the same time the fish don't appreciate us continually bashing about in their home. If you haven't overdosed these things, I wouldn't worry, just don't keep using some of them.

As for Prime, this is a conditioner that also shouldn't be over-dosed. Ammo-Lock also deals with chlorine and chloramine, and ammonia. Prime does this, plus it detoxifies nitrite and nitrate. If you should see nitrite in the tests, Prime would be a better conditioner instead of Ammo-Lock. Both detoxify ammonia by changing it to ammonium. Prime goes the next step and binds nitrite, but unless you have nitrite (and this may not appear with your plants) I wouldn't switch over. If I try to explain more, it will get bogged down in technicalities and that isn't necessary.

Byron.

Thank you again for all the advice. I did more water changes, changed the carbon filter, stopped all chemicals except Ammo-Lock. The Red Wag that had been looking really bad has died. After I did another water change, one of the Red Micky Mouse Platys, who had been being weird and hanging out at the bottom of the tank, holding still, perked up and started swimming around and I thought, "Oh good. Maybe things are good now." Everyone looked great for several days, but then today that one Micky Mouse was dead. I feel really bad. The remaining Red Wag and Red Micky Mouse fish seem to be missing their "partners." Do Platys recognize each other by color-type and pair up?

 

[Rocksie]

I've been setting up a 10 gallon dirted tank in anticipation of the arrival of plants. I had purchased a Marineland Penguin Power Filter 150 but now I've just discovered that the intake tube is too long and would actually have to poke down through the gravel cap and soil and right to the bottom of the tank. Anybody have a dirted 10 gallon tank with a filter you like?

I actually wanted to start a whole new thread for this question, but I seem to be a dolt at how to Forum. I can't figure out how to start new threads. I've poked around at different tools, etc. and have yet to figure it out. I can't even remember how I posted my initial thread!

 

[Toney]

Cut the tube down.

Look up and to the right of the page to find the new post button.

 

[Rocksie]

Cut the tube down.

Look up and to the right of the page to find the new post button.

Oh heavens! Not just a newb about fish and planted tanks but a newb about forums as well! Thanks!! I seemed to have posted something but didn't recognize that I'd done so from my monitor and thought the post hadn't worked. Oh dear, oh dear. I apologize to everyone for my clutziness!