Training your puffer to puff

[Opcn]

I was thinking about it and I was wondering if it would be possible to use assosiation training to get your puffer to puff on a signal for a tastey treat. If the fish puffed often I'm sure it wouldn't cause much pain and It would be a great party trick. Now I'm not going to try this because my fish has only puffed once and thats when it got a snail stuck in its throat.

*awaits torch bearing villagers*

 

[MAM]

*awaits torch bearing villagers*

you wouldn't be you without starting a little controversy lol

i really wouldn't recommend it as puffers puff when stressed..........

 

[Opcn]

Well I was thinking you could do it like you train a dog to get over its fear of loud noises perhaps. If You were to make a distinguishable noise (tap once lightly on the aquarium mabey or play a tone that will penetrate the water) then harras the puffer till it puffs and feed its favorite food eventualy it would either learn to puff at the taping and you would not need to harass it (and It would assosciat puffing with food rather than stress) or it would learn not to puff at the tapping and harrasment and assosciat them with food. In theory of coarse. It would be stressful and you would need to use a puffer that puffs regularly (apperently Fahaka Fry do ) But think of the accomplishment

 

[LadyMinion]

It's possible that during "training" you could end up causing the puffer to be more fearful and/or aggressive due to the stress. I also don't know the long-term effects of frequent puffing - it might harm them.

As much as I would like to see a puffer puff right before my eyes, I don't condone the idea of encouraging it. It evolved as a defense mechanism and should not be exploited for amusement.

Just my two pennies worth.

 

[SilverDollar_03]

i never knew puffers puffed up. i thought only blow fish do that! so they like inflate and become really huge and round??

 

[SirMinion]

i never knew puffers puffed up. i thought only blow fish do that! so they like inflate and become really huge and round??

Um.. puffers & blowfish are the same thing.. just two different names.

..also known as 'fugu' and 'globe fish'




.

 

[Opcn]

blow fish and puffers are the same thing

 

[lucky62]

i never knew puffers puffed up. i thought only blow fish do that! so they like inflate and become really huge and round??

why did you think they call them puffers ?






It is in defense that they puff up , they actually suck in water .
IMO this is stressful to the fish .

 

[Opcn]

We all know its stressful for them to puff but is that because they dont puff untill stressed out or because the action is stressful I think its the former and even if it were (to some extent other than totally) the latter then repeated puffings would cause the tissues that tear causeing pain to elongate and prevent pain sort of like streatching your tendons. I meanif you could tran a puffer to puff you would prevent the abuse many puffers undergo at the hands of people who are willing to throttle there fish multiple times daily in order to see it puff.

 

[Zombies]

I'm not a expert (i got my puffers yesterday!) but I wouldn't recommend trying to make them puff...Unesscessary stress might shorten there lifespan.

 

[csr mel]

what is the point in having a puffer if it is bad to force him to puff? that is similar to buying a sports car and never driving it anywhere.

 

[Opcn]

CSR you are exactly the person I had in mind when I made this thread. haveing a puffer is fun in itself the puffing is just the iceing on the cake. I think it would be best attempted with a large puffer like a fahaka or even better a porcupine.

 

[a1wonder]

what is the point in having a puffer if it is bad to force him to puff? that is similar to buying a sports car and never driving it anywhere.

Since when are living creatures toys? There is a natural reason why puffers puff. While puffers are very intelligent fish it would cause the fish serious stress to get him to perform the action that your requesting. Someone previously mentioned Ivan Pavlov's dogs.

For thoughts that are not familiar with the case study:
To get his dogs to salivate, Pavlov would present them with food, placing the target morsel on the canine's tongue. After working with a given dog for a few days, Pavlov noticed that the dog would salivate before being presented with food. The dogs drooled when Pavlov entered the room. They slobbered at the sound of his approaching footsteps!
You dog owners reading this page might be thinking, "Yeah, dogs slobber when you feed them; so what?" I'm sure you've noticed that you don't have to show your dog food, just hint that food might be a possible event in the near future, and you'll find Fido ensconced in the kitchen, happily wagging his tail in a puddle of anticipatory precipitation. Dogs drool when they think they're going to eat. And that's of major importance to psychology?
It was to Pavlov. What got Pavlov's attention was the fact that salivation is a reflex and the dogs were displaying that reflex in the absence of a natural stimulus. This idea, that a natural reflex could be affected by learning, so interested Pavlov that he abandoned his studies of digestion and spent the next 30 years -- the remainder of his career and life -- investigating this phenomenon.
Pavlov's Classical Conditioning was the first model of learning to be studied in psychology. Classical Conditioning investigated the capacity of animals to learn new stimuli and connect them to natural reflexes; allowing non - natural cues to elicit a natural reflex. Pavlov developed categories and terminology to study and describe the results of his experiment.

Now let me tell you why what your suggesting wont work. Pavlov worked with a natural positively occurring unconditioned response being that the dog would salivate. This caused no harm to the animal no stress occurred and the action was immediately followed by another unconditioned stimulus being the food (which caused the unconditioned response).

Firstly the unconditioned response, puffing, is a negative response to threat in the area. You would be the cause of the stimulus unconditioned stimulus after which you would have the neutral stimulus. The order in which you step up the conditioning is wrong.

What would happen is that you would condition the puffer to be afraid of you and mostly hid whenever you drew close to the tank.

Second problem, is the order of natural of appealing Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. The puffer will firstly want to save it self, from the impending threat, and if it feel secure it will move to its second level of needs which would be getting food. So, the point of you giving it food at the end it completely belittle to you causing it stress.

I'm sorry to have belabored the point but I hate seeing psychology being taken out of context and also having animals being caused unnecessary stress.

 

[SirMinion]

Excellent post a1wonder...you articulated what I wanted to say..

To get your puffer to puff you will have to stress it, in which case it will not be interested in food.

In the end it will associate food with dangerous, stressfull situations and will stop eating altogether.

Instead of teaching your fish to puff when fed, you will have taught it to not feed when you are around.

 

[LadyMinion]

what is the point in having a puffer if it is bad to force him to puff? that is similar to buying a sports car and never driving it anywhere.

That's a terrible analogy. I would prefer to think of it as having an expensive car and making the airbag inflate for fun - something that should only be done in an emergency.

haveing a puffer is fun in itself the puffing is just the iceing on the cake.

I would never think of puffing as a "feature" of owning a puffer, let alone the icing on the cake. I have to admit I'm quite horrified that you feel this way.