My tank has been free from sickness now for a couple months finally, then today I went to feed my fish and noticed one of my tiger barbs was swimming on his side and nose down. His belly looked really bloated. I transferred him to my q-tank, then noticed that one of my other tigers were eating bubbles from the top of the tank constantly like they were food, although it looked like he spit most of the air out. Then, that one started swimming sideways and doing the same thing when I gave them flakes! Put him in the q-tank, and things aren't looking too good. He went motionless and floated around, but he kicked out of it. Could this be from swallowing air bubbles, or is it most likely some other disease? I turned the air pump down so they would quit thinking the bubbles on the surface were food. At this point I am considering freezing the poor things. Please help!
Swim Bladder Disorder In 2 Tiger Barbs
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Size of tank in gallons or litres.
How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
Are the scales sticking out.
What do you feed your fish?
Any air bubbles beneath the skin.
Epson salt baths help draw the fluids out.
Don't freeze fish its an awful death.
The quick way to do it is fill a bucket if with very cold water, then add ice cubes till the water freezing cold.
Add the fish to the bucket is should take about 30 seconds, leave the fish in there for a while just to make sure
they have passed on.
Look under swim bladder.
[URL="http
/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm"]http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm[/URL]
How many fish and which type.
Water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
Are the scales sticking out.
What do you feed your fish?
Any air bubbles beneath the skin.
Epson salt baths help draw the fluids out.
Don't freeze fish its an awful death.
The quick way to do it is fill a bucket if with very cold water, then add ice cubes till the water freezing cold.
Add the fish to the bucket is should take about 30 seconds, leave the fish in there for a while just to make sure
they have passed on.
Look under swim bladder.
[URL="http
/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm"]http/www.fish-disease.net/diseases.htm[/URL]
TetraLinz
Fish Fanatic
Do you crush and presoak flakes before feeding? Flakes absorb water and expand inside of the fish's gut. If you don't crush them and presoak them before feeding, the chances of them causing constipation are increased . . . Just a thought because the fish shouldn't mistake bubbles for food
No . . . I don't agree with either form of euthanasia. Sorry. The "kindest" way to put a fish to sleep is to mix 10 drops of clove oil with water in a container, whisk the hell out of it, and then add the fish. Leave for about 2 minutes, then check on it. It should look like it's dead already, but check for gill movement. Clove oil is an anaesthetic to fish - the fish just goes to sleep. Once the fish is asleep, method of dispatch is up to you - you can either add more clove oil, a shot of vodka, or hit it over the head.
However, it would help us if you could answer the questions Wilder has asked.
No . . . I don't agree with either form of euthanasia. Sorry. The "kindest" way to put a fish to sleep is to mix 10 drops of clove oil with water in a container, whisk the hell out of it, and then add the fish. Leave for about 2 minutes, then check on it. It should look like it's dead already, but check for gill movement. Clove oil is an anaesthetic to fish - the fish just goes to sleep. Once the fish is asleep, method of dispatch is up to you - you can either add more clove oil, a shot of vodka, or hit it over the head.
However, it would help us if you could answer the questions Wilder has asked.
You might want to read this it's written by a mod who's a surgeon.
This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:
Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.
Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.
I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.
Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous
This is what I choose to do with my fish and my comments are only placed here as opinion. This is a heated topic. I choose based on my knowledge from my training:
Oil of cloves is a topical anethestic and was used in the past to treat toothaches. Lidocaine (like at the dentist's office is a topical anesthetic as well). When we operate on people we really want to achieve 2 things, analgesia and anesthesia, that is, relief of pain and unconsciousness. IMO, when a fish is immersed in oil of cloves, it is essentially 'topically anesthetized', paralyzed, but, I am NOT convinced that the fish is unconscious.....none of us will really know for sure. We don't know if the oil of cloves causes stinging to the mucus membranes, eyes, etc on initial contact nor if the fish is motionless, painless but aware.
Extreme cold is an anesthetic. When applied to skin, you can actually cut the skin and feel no pain. Cold also can cause rapid unconsciousness. In fact, hypothermia is reported to cause a state of euphoria and clouding of consciousness. Fish, at least most of the types that we keep (tropical), are extremely small and rapid immersion in extreme cold water, in my opinion, causes rapid pain relief and rapid unconsciousness. I have never seen any of my fish shows signs of what I consider suffering. They stop moving immediately and appear lifeless. Some have stated that since fish are ectothermic, this doesn't apply....perhaps in cold water fish I would agree.
I choose to euthanize my fish this way, rather than oil of cloves. One must either make an educated decision for themselves, or, choose what is currently accepted by the masses as what is humane.
Added: although I would never use blunt force to euthanize my fish, nor advocate it, one fact is for sure: death is instantaneous
It is a 20 gallon hex tank, 6 rosey barbs and 5 tiger barbs. My PH is around 6.0, 0 nitrites and nitrates 10ppm
A big overstocked I know, but it's a well estabilished tank and I never overfeed them, doing a weekly water change. I had to take in 2 tiger barbs that my grandma had in her 10 gallon because her tank was severely overcrowded. The scales do not appear to stick out and I can't see any air bubbles under the skin, the only sign on the body is bloated bellies. I do not presoak my food but I will start doing that.
I am going to wait until tomorrow morning and if things are worse I will consider euthanasia
A big overstocked I know, but it's a well estabilished tank and I never overfeed them, doing a weekly water change. I had to take in 2 tiger barbs that my grandma had in her 10 gallon because her tank was severely overcrowded. The scales do not appear to stick out and I can't see any air bubbles under the skin, the only sign on the body is bloated bellies. I do not presoak my food but I will start doing that.
I am going to wait until tomorrow morning and if things are worse I will consider euthanasia
Well, it is the next day and it's not looking to good. One of them floats to the top and swims around upside down, the other one is doing bad but not as bad. He seems to be struggling from floating to the top, occasionaly going on his side. They seem to still have lots of life in them, and when food goes by them they still eat. I added a small amount of rock salt to the tank, and offered them peas. Is there any chance they can recover if this is caused by constipation and not some kind of disease?
It swim bladder there showing all the symtoms.
There a swim bladder med by interpet, but yours sound far from saving.
Once they start to roll over upside down they don't seem to recover.
Can you issolate them.
There a swim bladder med by interpet, but yours sound far from saving.
Once they start to roll over upside down they don't seem to recover.
Can you issolate them.
Yes I have them isolated in a 10 gal. The one that first started showing symptoms has seemingly recovered! He is now swimming normally and eating. I honestly didn't think he would make it and I'm glad I didn't euthanize him. Although his belly looks a little bloated still, but not nearly as bad.
TetraLinz
Fish Fanatic
Swimbladder disorder is when the fish struggles to get off the floor of the tank, or when it cannot get down from the surface - but it does not overturn and go upside down! It can't. If a fish upends, it's either dietary related (as appears to be the case here), or a bacterial infection. Presoaking the flakes causes them to expand before the fish eat them, and crushing them . . . well, I won't insult your intelligence by explaining that one.
There is no known cure for true swimbladder disorder. Fasting the fish for 3 days and then feeding peas will cure constipation.
Wilder - your explanation of clove oil is great - except it assumes that the oil affects fish in the same way as it affects humans. Chances are, it doesn't. I have euthanised a fish using clove oil - a tiny tetra. It did not show any sign of pain.
There is no known cure for true swimbladder disorder. Fasting the fish for 3 days and then feeding peas will cure constipation.
Wilder - your explanation of clove oil is great - except it assumes that the oil affects fish in the same way as it affects humans. Chances are, it doesn't. I have euthanised a fish using clove oil - a tiny tetra. It did not show any sign of pain.
I usually feed them a varied diet of flakes, dried tubifex, and cooked frozen peas. I haven't fed the affected ones anything but a small amount of peas since they showed symptoms. I think they may have become constipated because I was gone for 3 days, so I only showed up at my house to feed them flakes once a day, and when I got back I fed them some dried tubifex and it probably plugged them up after not having much food for 3 days. I will fast them for a day. Seems like the other one is getting better, too
TetraLinz
Fish Fanatic
That's a good start, but think about adding some of the following:
Daphnia,
Brine shrimp
Bloodworm (go easy on the bloodworm though - about once a week is ideal)
Mysis shrimp
Blanched lettuce
Mosquito larvae
Black worm
White shrimp
Blanched cabbage
Try them with pellets too - they're a good alternative to flakes.
Daphnia,
Brine shrimp
Bloodworm (go easy on the bloodworm though - about once a week is ideal)
Mysis shrimp
Blanched lettuce
Mosquito larvae
Black worm
White shrimp
Blanched cabbage
Try them with pellets too - they're a good alternative to flakes.
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