Stress Coat & Ammonia?

[Winterlily]

I just started using Stress Coat to condition my tap water when doing my daily (sometimes 2 times a day) water changes in my fish-in cycling tank. (Was using API's regular ol tap water conditioner, but it said that in the process of breaking the chloramine <sp?> bond, ammonia could be produced. ?) Now, my ammonia has dropped to either zero (sometimes) or just a slightly greenish ting (API liquid test) others. I just noticed that the bottle of Stress Coat says that it removes ammonia. <sigh> Is this one of those that fools my test kit into thinking there isn't any in there, but there is? What ought I be using to condition the water instead if I shouldn't use Stress Coat? What's do you all feel is the best? (If it matters, we have very hard water here.)

Thanks...!

 

[cowboy507]

I use topfin water conditioner. It just removes chlorine and chloramine.

 

[rdd1952]

There are 2 different types of Stress Coat: regular that removes/neutralizes chlorine and chloramines and Stres Coat Plus that also detoxifies ammonia. It doesn't actually remove it but just changes it into ammonium which is non-toxic. Your test kit should still show the normal reading so if your ammonia reading is dropping, it is probably because the bacteria colony is starting to build enough to handle the toxins.

 

[Winterlily]

Thanks! So, is Stress Coat a good thing to use routinely, or should I stick with just the regular old tap water conditioner?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, API StressCoat is a perfectly good water conditioner. By routine use you hopefully mean to take chlorine/chloramines out of the replacement tap water when you do your water changes, right. That's when you would use it.

~~waterdrop~~
edit: ps. All water conditioners that are made to deal with chloramine will simply break it apart and there will be a small amount of ammonia as a result. A mature filter handles this quickly. Many conditioners also will convert this ammonia to ammonium, so that it will be harmless to fish but will still be a food for the bacteria.

 

[rdd1952]

Stress Coat is the only dechlorinator I've ever used.

 

[OldMan47]

Most of the name brand dechlorinators work about the same. They break the chlorine / ammonia bond and neutralize both the chlorine and the ammonia. Each brand also adds in, you name it other things, to make their stuff the best you can buy. I think it is aloe with the stress coat but the miscellaneous additives have no real benefits from what I have been able to tell. Depending on the way your particular test kit works, the water treatment will "hide" the ammonia from the test. Some tests only test the toxic form of ammonia while others show total ammonia.

 

[Winterlily]

Okay, good. So I'll use the Stress Coat as the tap water conditioner when I do my (many...grrr) water changes. One last quick question: The API Tap Water Conditioner says it deals with chlorine, chloramine, and neutralizes heavy metals. The Stress Coat does not say the latter. Does that mean I should use both together, or one in preference to the other? (Dunno if it matters, but our water here is very hard.)

BTW, waterdrop, your ps edit about that breaking the chloramine bond produces ammonia explains why I had ammonia readings for a week BEFORE I added any fish! It's a good thing, though, as it put me a week ahead into the cycle by the time I added the fish!

 

[OldMan47]

Most of the name brand dechlorinators will also deal with heavy metals to some degree. These manufacturers are all competing with each other so they are very much alike in effectiveness. I like the Seachem Prime because it is much cheaper to use than most other brands. It has a similar or slightly higher price per bottle but you only use 1 ml per 10 US gallons of water which makes it dirt cheap to use. It also binds heavy metals.
You should not equate hard water with heavy metals. The hardness in water is defined in terms of calcium and magnesium ions being present. These are not heavy metals at all, they are light metals. Because they often are associated with high pH conditions, they are often found in water that is not especially high in things like lead because the water does not dissolve the solder in municipal water piping systems when it is not acidic.

 

[Winterlily]

Thanks OldMan47 - makes total sense.

Quick (& stupid!) question: When the water conditioner says, for example, to add 1 ml per 10 gallons of water, do you add it for your overall tank size, or only for the amount you adding back to the tank (and so, conditioning)? I'm probably being unclear... If you have a 20 gallon tank, for example, and you do a 50% water change and are adding back in 10 gallons, and the water conditioner instrux are 1 ml per 10 gallons, would you add 2 ml because you have a 20 gallon tank, or would you add 1 ml, because you are only conditioning 10 gallons, not all 20??

 

[cowboy507]

Thanks OldMan47 - makes total sense.

Quick (& stupid!) question: When the water conditioner says, for example, to add 1 ml per 10 gallons of water, do you add it for your overall tank size, or only for the amount you adding back to the tank (and so, conditioning)? I'm probably being unclear... If you have a 20 gallon tank, for example, and you do a 50% water change and are adding back in 10 gallons, and the water conditioner instrux are 1 ml per 10 gallons, would you add 2 ml because you have a 20 gallon tank, or would you add 1 ml, because you are only conditioning 10 gallons, not all 20??

you could really use either. I just use what i am adding back. it doesnt hurt to over condition. the big reason for the water conditioner is so the bacteria in your filter doesnt die, chlorine will do this very quickly, that is what chlorine is meant to do. chlorine also stresses your fish, but they can handle it for a short period. your filter cannot

 

[alchemist]

If you have a 20 gallon tank, for example, and you do a 50% water change and are adding back in 10 gallons, and the water conditioner instrux are 1 ml per 10 gallons, would you add 2 ml because you have a 20 gallon tank, or would you add 1 ml, because you are only conditioning 10 gallons, not all 20??

It depends how you do your water change. If you add a little of the conditioner into each new bucket of water then you would be adding enough for the water that you are adding.

If you are putting new water straight into the tank with a hose pipe - or even still using buckets - you need to treat for the entire volume of the tank.

I did it the later way for the first time the other day - I was a little nervous about adding non-treated water straight into the tank - it did seem counter-intuitive - but I have read many posts on here where people do it this way. Apparently the conditioner processes the chlorine immediately on contact. The way I did it was turn of my filters temporarily - add in the conditioner for the total volume of my tank - then added the water back in using a hose pipe from my tap. I stirred everything up and then started off my filters again.

 

[rabbut]

It amazes me how nervous people get about their filters during a water change. Where did the bacteria in your tank come from in the first place in most cases? The tap! The starter colony of bacteria came in amongst chloramine/chlorine laiden water, and are a chloramine/chlorine resistant strain in the first place in most instances. Unless you have ran the tank for many years without ever doing water changes adding back water without any chloramine/chlorine in it (un-likely in most cases), and some how got non-chloramine/chlorine resistant bacteria from somewhere, a chlorine/chloramine resisant strain of bacteria will be living in your filter I'm not advocating that new fish-keepers go out and stop using dechlorinator at water changes (though I don't use the stuff anymore), but I whould point out that in most cases, doing a water change without using dechlorinator will do no harm t the filter, unless the water board has recently switched which chemical they use for water treatment, or it is a very large water change you are doing

API Stress Coat is an OK water conditioner for most community tropicals, but if you get into stuff like Puffers, Discus, loaches and other fish that are sencitive to stuff in the water, it can cause issues. The last few times I used Stress Coat with Discus, they went jet black, became smothered in excess slime and started flicking and rubbing aganst objects. I realised I'd used the wrong conditioner and did another large water change, quickly solving that issue Stress Coat contains Aloe Vera to "enhance the slime coat" on fish. The only obvious way for it to do this is to irritate the fish, causing them to produce more slime as a responce to the stress of being irritated. There are many reports on-line of Aloe Vera being an irrtant to fish, and when I ask the API rep at work, he always dodges the question and attempts to change the subject quickly.

When I used to use dechlorinator, I used API Water Conditioner. It's more concertrated and a couple of quid cheaper, and also does not have the problematic Aloe Vera in it

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Winterlily]

Thanks everyone!

OldMan47: You mentioned Prime. I THINK I read somewhere on here (read sooo much I can't keep it straight any longer!) that Prime wasn't a good choice while you were cycling - is that right? I looked at it in the LFS and saw it said that it detoxifies nitrite - does it give you a false negative on the test (API liquid) then? I won't know where I am in the cycle if it "takes it away" if you kwim? Is Prime indeed okay to use while still in cycle or should I just stick with API's regular tap water conditioner until, at least, I'm done?

Rabbut - that does indeed make sense. Once question though - you said you don't even use declorinators anymore. Isn't chlorine supposed to be quite harmful/irritating/whatever to the fish themselves (filter issues aside)?

I didn't know Aloe was irritating to them! Hmm, gotta rethink my use of Stress Coat then.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Winterlily

I've been using API Tap Water Conditioner for years. It's a good, basic, product that does the job it's intended to do at a minimal cost. I don't like the idea that the fish must breathe unnecessary aloe vera or other chemicals through their gills. It sounds too much like making them live in smoggy conditions.