Stocking question.

[Amylpriddy]

I made a huge fish mistake. And now I’m going to fix it. I bought a 10 gallon tank for my kids. Then selected fish without knowing much about them. 2 Orandas and a Plecos. They are all still tiny little fish....we’ve had them less than a week...and they are doing just fine. We only feed as much as they will consume in a few minutes a few times a day.

I have learned how large these fish will get...and we are currently doing a little construction in preparation for a 75 gallon tank. I was going to originally get a 55....but the 75 is deeper from front to back so think that will be a better choice for them. We should have the new tank within the next few weeks. I plan on moving all of their filter media....and their water with them when they relocate. Along with all the pea pebbles and decorations.

So now I’m wondering what else I should put into this tank after it’s up and running. I’m thinking of adding 2 vieltails.

So would 2 Orandas, 2 vieltails and 1 Pleco be too much for a 75 gallon tank? I’m also considering adding 3 black moors instead of the vieltails but worry because they will not get nearly as large as the Orandas. Which would be a better fit?

 

[Byron]

The 75g is a better choice than the narrower 55g, good idea there. I had a 55g, and I have a 70g (same footprint as the 75, just a couple inches shorter) and the additional width front to back makes a big difference.

There is no value generally in moving existing water to a new tank, and 10 gallons in a 75 gallon would be pointless anyway. Filter media is good. You could also have live plants (goldfish do eat these, but it is still possible to have some hardy plants). But here I would recommend a good bacterial supplement, like Dr. Tim's One and Only or Tetra's SafeStart to help seed the bacteria. The filter media, depending how "old" it will then be, could easily handle this provided only the existing fish are moved over and allowed to settle before acquiring other fish.

Combining goldfish and tropical species is not advisable. The pleco here I would remove. It needs warmer temperatures than the goldfish will appreciate, and rather than make life difficult for either, remove the problem.

I will leave it to the goldfish experts to comment on numbers and varieties, but a 75g is not that much space when you are dealing with goldfish, so you may have to reduce expectations.

 

[Colin_T]

So would 2 Orandas, 2 vieltails and 1 Pleco be too much for a 75 gallon tank? I’m also considering adding 3 black moors instead of the vieltails but worry because they will not get nearly as large as the Orandas. Which would be a better fit?

No offence to the original poster but I would love to have a chat to petshops that sell plecos with goldfish

The 75gallon tank is the better option for all fish. Surface area (length x width) is more important then height.

Do you have a heater in the tank?
As mentioned by Byron, the Plecostomus (aka pleco) is tropical and needs warm water. Goldfish will tolerate cold or warm, and the more fancy varieties of goldfish usually do better in warm rather than very cold. However, in an average house the fancy goldfish will not need any heating. Fancy goldfish (orandas, fantails, moors, etc) do best when the temperature is above 10 degrees Celsius, and do really well in temperatures between 15 & 25C. And they can tolerate temperatures up to 32C.

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2 orandas, 2 veiltails & 3 black moors would be fine in either of the tanks, but would be happier in the 75g. You could add the pleco to that group in the 75g but temperatures would be a concern. And goldfish and plecos are dirty fish that create vast amounts of waste so you will have to do lots of big water changes and complete gravel cleans, (50-75% water change and complete gravel clean once a week). Even without the pleco you will still need to do big water changes and gravel cleans for the goldfish.

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Fancy goldfish do not do well on dry food that floats, so no flake food and minimal dry floating food for them, especially as they get bigger. When they eat dry foods from the surface they take in a lot of air and due to the body shape it can take a long time to come out the other end. This can cause the fish to have balance and swimming problems and often float around the tank for hours after they have been fed.

Fancy goldfish are basically a normal common/ comet goldfish that has been squished (from inbreeding) to make it shorter. This means the fish has the same length intestine as a common goldfish but the body length is shorter. And this means the intestines get squashed up and makes it harder for food to pass through them. If you add air to this you get fish with bubbles (gas) in their intestine and that causes them some discomfort and issues until it passes out.

They are best fed on foods that sink slowly through the water column, and should have lots of plant matter in their diet. Duckweed is a floating plant that does well in ponds or tanks and is readily eaten by goldfish. Frozen but defrosted prawn, fish, squid that has been cut into small bits is relished by the fish. Brineshrimp, daphnia, mosquitoe larvae and most other frozen fish foods from the petshop will be eaten.

Feed them a little bit once every couple of days until the filters have established, and then you can feed them twice a day for small fish and once a day for bigger adult fish.

 

[Amylpriddy]

Thank you for both of your responses. The tank does not have a heater. I really didn’t think about the water temps affect on the pleco. I wonder if it’s possible to find a temperature controlled by a heater that will be suitable for both the pleco and the goldfish. If not, I guess he will be getting a bigger tank too. I could put that where their current little tank is now. And buying second hand, I could acquire a tank fairly cheaply for him.

The food thing brings up other questions. I have been buying them flakes....and just added freeze dried blood worms to their diet. Algae wafers are supplied for the pleco. Can you recommend a brand of food that will sink fairly quickly? Right now, I try to put the food where the current created by the filter will push it down into the water instead of it floating on top.

And the 75 will need a filter system. The tanks I have been looking at only come with the hood/light. I hear canister filters are recommended. What do I need to look for when purchasing one? Is there a preferred brand? I would rather spend the extra money now and get exactly what I need then have a bunch of equipment that didn’t do what I needed to do piling up in a box.

And real plants will be added to all of the tanks.

Thank you!

 

[Amylpriddy]

And I was thinking either/or for the black moors and vieltails. I figured 2 Orandas, 2 vieltails and 3 blackmoors would have been too many. So thank you!

 

[Colin_T]

if you want to keep the pleco and goldfish I would set the temperature on 24-25C. The pleco won't freeze and the goldfish will be fine. They will think it is spring all year round . However, if kept in warm water all year round the goldfish will not breed when mature. They need a cool period and then warmth to come into breeding condition.

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I make my own fish food up. I go to a bait supply company and buy 1 kg bags of prawn, white bait, squid, etc and either mince them up together in a meat mincer, or just cut them up into little bits with a pr of scissors.

*NB* Do not bother with meat foods until the filters have established. Meat based foods like prawn and fish will cause very high ammonia readings that can kill fish so just stay with dry and freeze dried foods until the filters have established.

I am unsure what you have available but if you talk to your local petshop, they should be able to get you some slow sinking pellets for goldfish. These are simply small food pellets they slowly sink through the water, rather than dropping straight to the bottom like the algae wafer does.

Food isn't a big issue at this stage so rushing out and buying slow sinking pellets is not something you need to do today. Small goldfish don't take in as much air when feeding from the surface so you can keep feeding the way you are for a little while. However, if you notice the fish having trouble keeping upright or being able to swim downwards, after they have been feed dry food, then air is the reason.

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As far as power filters go, I use Aquaclear power heads and Hang on back style filters. And I use the old Fluval external canister filters. Eheim is another good brand but cost most than fluval and they both last for a long time.
Check how long the warranty is for the filter and how easy parts are to get. And buy a filter that can do the tank's water volume at least 5 times per hour, preferably 10 times an hour.

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Most of my tanks were 4ft long x 14inches wide x 18inches high (held about 160litres) and I regularly kept 10-12, 4-5inch fish in them without any problems. The 4-5 inch fish was body length and did not include the tail.
The fish were kept in water that fluctuated between 18C in winter to 32C in summer. They were fed 2 times a day and fed quite a lot. The tanks got a 75% water change and complete gravel clean once a week.
So keeping 7 fantail goldfish in your tank should not be an issue.

 

[Byron]

The tank does not have a heater. I really didn’t think about the water temps affect on the pleco. I wonder if it’s possible to find a temperature controlled by a heater that will be suitable for both the pleco and the goldfish. If not, I guess he will be getting a bigger tank too. I could put that where their current little tank is now. And buying second hand, I could acquire a tank fairly cheaply for him.

What species of pleco? Some, like the common pleco, will attain 18 inches and that means a very large tank, and their bioload is considerable.

I would not mix tropical with goldfish regardless. While heat for goldfish is not going to kill them--initially anyway--it is going to impact them negatively. Temperature drives the homeostasis of fish, and the warmer the water temperature the harder the fish has to work just to carry out normal physiological functions. This applies to all fish. So keeping cool water (temperate) species in warmer water is having a detrimental effect slow but sure. Room temperature (you cannot get colder without some sort of chiller and that is not necessary for goldfish) will suit the goldfish fine, and they will be in better health.

And just so it is understood, non-permanent temperature changes such as higher heat in summer is not an issue like permanent warm temperatures. Variation is OK, natural even, but heaters keeping a steady temperature is very different.

 

[Amylpriddy]

I’m not sure what kind of pleco he is. I need to get a good look at him to identify him. He seems to enjoy hiding. I live in the southeastern part of the United States. A heater will only be necessary for a few weeks out of the year. The rest of the time they will be living in room temperature water. Right now, it’s around 74 degrees in their tank.

So would multiple filter systems in the tank be okay? I’ve used the hang on the back style when I had fish tanks years ago. My reasons for wanting to try a canister filter is because of where we will be putting this tank. We had these windows on the interior wall separating our family room from our dining room. I never understood why an interior wall needed windows. They served no purpose. So we took them out. There is a huge hole I the wall now. And the custom built cabinet that is currently in construction for the 75 gallon fish tank will be built on the family room side of this hole. We’re going to make the cabinet look like it was a built in that has always been here. And the fish tank will then be viewable from both the family room and living room. So i’m looking for a filter system that isn’t the eyesore that a hang on the back tank is and I think a canister style filter thst can be put into the cabinet will be the best fit.

I will ask the fish store people about sinking pellets.

 

[seangee]

A single canister will be fine. A Fluval 406 should be plenty but you may want to look at the FX4 as goldfish are generally messier than what I keep (Disclaimer Fluval is the only brand I have used on large aquaria, others should be just as good).

For your particular requirement I had a 90G tank with a drilled base so all the pipework came from the cabinet beneath the tank, which meant it looked good from all angles. I also had an external heater connected to the filter return (again inside the cabinet). You could set the thermostat to the low end of the Plecs needs which means it would only come on for a few weeks of the year but you don't have to remember to turn it on.

 

[Amylpriddy]

I will look into the Fluval canister filters. I’m not familiar with the canister style filter at all. So I guess I will be spending the next week or so reading all I can find on them. I’m sure there are threads on these forums that are loaded with information.

An aquarium with very little equipment viable would be awesome. A drilled tank is intimidating though. I’m going to look on YouTube for videos on drilling an aquarium. My boyfriend is good with DIY stuff. So his honey-do list after he finishes the aquarium cabinet and finishes off the wall may just get a little longer.

Thank you all for all of your help!

 

[Byron]

One canister filter is enough for any aquarium provided it is in the size sufficient for the task. That would serve your purpose of not too much equipment.

 

[Colin_T]

For your particular requirement I had a 90G tank with a drilled base so all the pipework came from the cabinet beneath the tank, which meant it looked good from all angles.

If you are getting a new tank, perhaps talk to a shop that deals with marine tanks and have a tank and sump made. The tank will get 2 holes drilled in the base of it. This has to be done professionally and the holes should be near the corners and reinforced with another piece of glass. Or a thicker base should be used.
The shop or your partner can then plumb the tank to the sump with pvc pipe fittings and then you only have 2 pipes in the tank (1 for draining water into the sump and the other for returning water to the tank).

The sump is simply another tank that sits underneath the main display tank. It can be as big as you like but it will increase the volume of water that the fish live in. The sump will also contain a trickle filter, heater and water pump.

Do a google search for tickle filters/ sumps and see what you think. They can be used for any sort of fish (fresh, salt, plants, etc) and provide a nice viewing piece without the clutter of filters, heaters, etc.

If you do get a sump/ trickle filter you will need to make sure the stand can take the total weight of 2 tanks (the main display and the sump), and get a sump that is as big as possible.
And if you have wooden floors make sure it can take the weight.

 

[NickAu]

Never kept gold fish but I do know 1 thing some of the fancy ones are not great swimmers and will not appreciate a lot of current.