Split from Nmonk's sand topic

Assuming you aren't using plants, then a 1.5 cm depth of sand is ideal, and there's basically no chance of anaerobic conditions developing, except, perhaps, under a big rock or something. Corydoras catfish and kuhli loaches would both clean the sand beautifully, but a fun fish is the horseface loach if you can find them. They love digging into the sand.

Malayan livebearing snails may produce a little mess, but a trivial amount compared with fish. Their good points outweight their bad, and in a tank with a shallow substrate you can always "cull" the snails by running a net through the sand periodically to capture some of the snails.

These snails are utterly harmless and make a good addition to community tanks. Would look very cool with shrimps. I was actually thinking of doing a "rock pool" themed freshwater tank using these snails and some of the various new shrimps.

Cheers,

Neale
 
Oh, I have two cories, so I do not have to worry about anearobic(sp) gases?
 
Probably not, assuming the sand isn't much more than 1 or 2 cm deep. Corydoras will burrow right into the sand, and you'll see them spewing it out through their gills. It's fun to see.

Oh, I have two cories, so I do not have to worry about anearobic(sp) gases?

Just to clarify the anaerobic decay and gases bit. Assuming you don't have an undergravel filter or an undertank / in-gravel heater, oxygen only gets into the substrate by diffusion. In a gravel substrate, the gravel particles are so big that the diffusion of oyxgen is rapid and effective, and even a gravel substrate 10 cm (about 4 inches) deep will be perfectly well oyxgenated.

In a sand substrate, the size of the particles means that they are much more closely packed, so there is less space for the oyxgen to diffuse through. The result is that oyxgen concentration drops off rapidly the deeper into a sandy substrate you go. In practical terms, below about 5 cm depth, and certainly before 10 cm depth, the oyxgen concentration will likely be too low for oxygen-consuming bacteria to survive. This is called the "anoxic layer". This means that any decay of organic materials there will be anaerobic (just like yeast brewing beer or wine). In the process, whereas yeast produce carbon dioxide and alcohol, these bacteria will produce, among other things, hydrogen sulphide.

In high concentrations, hydrogen sulphide has a nasty, bad-eggs smell, and is toxic to most fish.

Now, there are two addition factors to consider. Firstly, plants aerate the substrate. Aquatic plants have evolved to have their roots in sediments with low oxygen concentrations (i.e., mud) and so absolutely love to be planted in sand. Why? Because they can much more easily absorb minerals in low-oxygen sediments than high-oxygen ones. That is why plants grow poorly in tanks with undergravel filters, which by their very action oxygenate the substrate. Anyway, the plant roots carry oxygen down so that the cells in the roots can 'breathe', and in the process oxygen escapes into sand stopping it becoming completely devoid of oxygen.

The second factor is snails and fish. Burrowing Malayan livebearing snails in particular will dig into the sand and, just like earthworms on land, they allow oxygen to diffuse down their burrows and freshen up the sand deeper down.

So, if you use plants and the right kind of snails, and perhaps a few digging fish as well, then sandy substrates are entirely safe. They may also have other benefits beyond improving plant growth. Nitrate-removing bacteria will live in the anoxic layer, and these break down harmful nitrate into harmless nitrogen.

Hydrogen sulphide is really the main problem, and for this to be produced in appreciable and dangerous amounts, you need a lump of organic material to get buried in the sand quite deeply (5+ cm) and left there for at least a few days. Simple aquarium hygiene should prevent that happening, as will scavenging fish, Malayan livebearing snails, and the fact that stuff tends to sit on top of the sand rather than sink into it.

There's a lot of paranoia about sand and anaerobic decay, but it's important to realise that such conditions are normal in the wild and perfectly manageable in aquaria.

Cheers,

Neale
 
I will try to look out for them horseface loaces, do they have any special requirements and how big do they grow? I would appreciate it if you could also send me a PM including some useful information about cheap, easy to maintain, friendly diggers. :)
 
Horseface loaches are pretty easy to care for, and need much the same things as other loaches. Do a search under Acantopsis choirorhynchos on the Internet or in your aquarium books. There's a nice summary here.

Rather than send one message, I'll list a few fishes here so others can read them, and perhaps add there own. Besides Corydoras and Brochis spp., other good diggers include clown loaches, kuhli loaches, Synodontis, spiny eels, Awaous spp. gobies, most bottom feeding cichlids, and (perhaps surprisingly) many of the medium to large sized barbs. There should be one or two fishes on that list that will go into pretty well any community. Kuhli loaches are cheap and hardy, and get along with everything. Just be sure and keep a fair sized group of you want to see them at all.

Cheers,

Neale

I will try to look out for them horseface loaces, do they have any special requirements and how big do they grow? I would appreciate it if you could also send me a PM including some useful information about cheap, easy to maintain, friendly diggers. :)
 
I have a Dojo/weather loach that does a bang up job throwing sand all over the tank! He loves to thrash the sand to the point I had to raise the uptakes on both of my HOB to keep the sand out. He is a kick to watch!
 
Those are very nice fish. Very entertaining. Pretty much any loach will turn over the sand for you (the exception are those hillstream loaches). So Neal, one option is to choose a loach to suit your water chemistry and potential tankmates. Kuhli loaches work great in small tanks, for example, and you can scale up through things like skunk loaches and clown loaches. Do check out social behaviour though -- some need groups (e.g., clowns, kuhli) while others are territorial loners (many of the Botia spp.).

Cheers,

Neale

I have a Dojo/weather loach...
 
nmonks, i`m a nooby and i`m looking at the ideas in your tank to replicate in mine, it looks great!

What are the types of sand you have in your tank and to what deapth. I.e whats the black sand and whats the white? Also what size is your gravel?

Thanks
Chris
 
Hello craynerd --

Thanks for the kind words!

The gravel was just plain gravel picked up at a garden centre. Just make sure it's lime free or it will harden the water and raise the pH, which you (usually) don't want. The gravel bits are around 5-7 mm across, so it's fairly coarse. There was no logic to this choice... it was just that was the only gravel on sale at the time.

The black stuff is pond soil. You buy this in big bags from garden centres. Unlike regular potting soil, this is made to be nitrate free (so it doesn't cause algae blooms) and is tested to be safe with fish (something you can't guarantee with other types of soil and compost). You don't need masses of soil, I'd say about one part soil to five parts gravel, if that. But the plants will really appreciate it! Obviously, if you're not growing plants, or growing plants that absorb nutrients from the water (like Java fern) then you don't need the soil.

There are some lava rocks inside the gravel to help stabilise the 'mound' a bit, but you could use any lime-free rocks you had to hand. Flint, slate, granite would all work well.

The depth of gravel and sand is about 15 cm at the deepest point.

Sand is then poured over the entire thing, and the sand fills in the spaces within the gravel and eventually covers it up at the top, too. Sort of if you were to pour salt over a plate of peas. At first the salt would sit between the peas, but eventually it would cover the peas completely.

Cheers,

Neale
 
i dont know if this was covered but, how do you remove dirt from sand without wasting sand.

And, if you disturb sand, will it go cloudy again? ~Thanks!
 
Dirt usually sits on the top of the sand. Siphon gently, and the dirt will go. If you have some sand in the bucket, stir the bucket. The dirt will go into the water and can be poured away, while the sand will quickly sink to the bottom of the bucket.

No, the water doesn't go cloudy if you move or clean the sand. The cloudiness come from the silt inside the bag of fresh sand, not the sand itself. So once you've put the sand in the tank, the aquarium filter cleans off the silt, and the cloudiness is gone, permanently.

Cheers,

Neale
 
the worst you get is if you really REALLY sirt the sand up in your tank is the grains of sand fall slowly down to the bottome and will drift and settle on your decor a little nothing major though its all gone in 30 seconds
 
Ok, I have not been doing anything about aneurobic gases. I have had sand in for about a month now. I have moved it around slightly with a coat hanger.

Is there any other ways to possible stop this without getting a fish? I cannot fit a java loach, and my LFS does not have snails. I'm really starting to get worried about these gases. Thank you.
 
First, don't get paranoid. Anaerobic conditions aren't bad. They're normal in ponds and lakes. Your plants like anaerobic conditions around their roots. It's only bad if some organic matter gets down there and starts to decay. So, provided you keep the tank clean, there's no way for hydrogen sulphide to magically appear out of nowhere.

Second, get some sand cleaners. There must be something available, where it's Corydoras or kuhli loaches or whatever. Malayan snails, the very best choice, can sometimes be obtained mail order. If you're in the UK, I can easily send you some; contact me off-list.

Cheers,

Neale
 

Most reactions

Back
Top