Some Advice Please On New Set-Up

[fishboytoo]

Hello,

Looking for your opinions on my planned nano reef, plus a couple questions. I have been reading alot on nano and saltwater in general lately as this is my first foray into it. I have been into freshwater for more than a decade now, off and on. I have read many threads in this section and think I have an idea what I'm doing, let me know if you agree!

So my plan is a 20 gallon nano tank, about 20lbs liverock, 20lbs aragonite sand, hydor 1 powerhead(400GPH), old aquaclear 70 HOB filter as makeshift refugium, and Coralife 24 Inch AquaLight T5 HO Fixture (2-24W). Is this enough light? I hope so, I have a hard time swallowing 4x the price for 2x the watts. See below for the corals I am thinking of.

I intend to start out with H20+sand+liverock-->cycle, when it grows some scum/algae add CUC, then add fish. I would like a firefish goby, bangaii cardinal, and a third species-maybe sixline wrasse. I'm thinking 3-4 fish in total. Is this too little/too much?

When everything looks good add some corals. I like zoanthid-button polyps, green star polyp, mushrooms, and ricordea floridea so far. Also like colt coral. Not sure on compatability with this mix. How many can I put in a 20 gallon?


I have a couple more general questions also:

First, many posts talk about using RO water, is this necessary? I spoke with a fellow at my LFS, which is a reputable establishment, he has marine tanks and he said that at the LFS and himself personally does not use RO. Is my LFS not as reputable as I think it is??

Second, I have been reading about CUC and am unsure of how many critters to stock and if they can be added at once. I see differing advice. One online store sells a package for 15-25 gallon tanks:
12 - Blue Legged Hermits
3 - Red Scarlet Hermit
5 - Astrea Snails
5 - Margarita Snails
5 - Cerith Snails
The price is attractive, is this a good idea? If lack of detritus/algae is initially a problem can I feed them extra somehow?

Sorry for the long post, thanks for looking! I welcome your input.

 

[Harry1996]

i woulnt get that cuc pack too many hermits and snails imo.
i would use Ro water because you dont know whats in your tapwater (nitrate,etc)
water then live rock then the sand, because if anything(snails)go under your sand they can cause a rock fall.
with coral it depens on how big it is they need space to grow so its hard to say.
2 24W lights will be good

 

[Morri]

Welcome to the salty side

I would have serious concerns for any shop that does not run there systems off RO I would never attempt to run a marine from tap water as you are intrucing chemicals and polutants into the system. (albeit some people do)

Nitrates
Phosphates
Chloride

None of these are any good in a marine system, I help in a shop once a week and i know how much time and care we take of our water if its not right you can wipe out thousands of pounds of stock.

CUC should be added slowly as needed generaly on that size tank I would wait until the tank has cycled then just add maybe 2 Cereiths, 2 Banded Trocheous and 2 Hermit crabs if you add to many they will just starve.

2 x T5s will be fine for most LPS and Softies

 

[DigitalStorm]

The cost to fill a 20 gallon tank with RO (unsalted) will be less than 10 pounds.

A small price to pay for increased longevity of your livestock wouldnt you say?

Maybe he just wants you to keep stocking from his shop on a regular basis!

Yeah, I have 3 cerith, 4 narissus and 3 re-legged for my 30 gallon tank and they do the job very well. sounds like a bit of overkill on the pack.

 

[fishboytoo]

Thanks for the replies.

I went back to the LFS tonight and talked to the same guy again. I quized him a little more on the RO and he changed his story a bit, or I mis-understood the first time. He said they do use RO water but not completely, they use "some" tapwater with it as they feel it adds some nutrients and they have not had any problems doing this.

I am really glad I asked this question or I would have just used plain old tapwater. I will buy processed water and look to getting a RO system in the future. Thanks for the feedback.

I thought that CUC deal seemed a bit too good to be true. Some websites I have looked at, can't recall which now, did seem to day that amount of CUC was appropriate. Looking at what you guys/gals have, 6-10 crabs/snails, in your tanks- it seems way too much in that pack now. Again , thanks for the advice.

I bought the tank and sand today. Salt and water tomorrow, rock the day after. I still can't believe I'm actually doing a saltwater tank!

What are your thoughts on fish stocking for a 20 gal? I really have no idea how many in total I should consider putting in. My freshwater experience would tell me I could put quite a few smaller sized fish in 20 gallons. I expect this is different for saltwater?

Thanks again for the input!

 

[DigitalStorm]

Additional nutrients? More like a cost saving exercise.

For my tank a 30gal, I'm looking to stock a maximum of 5-6 fish.

If you check many of the forums for nano reefs, many have possible stocking options as stickies.

Sounds like you're well on your way to the saltwater!

 

[steelhealr]

A 30 gallon saltwater tank is small. As we all know, the larger the tank the better. When dealing with small volumes of water, our decision making is crucial to maintaining a healthy tank. The time and money investment is worth the patience when attempting to set up a viable, long living nano reef.

Opinions will always differ here, but, IMO, I think 5-6 fish in a 30G is too much. If you want a lot of fish, I recommend that you don't go nano. Compatibility issues arise. You have to feed more and risk nitrate problems which in turn could affect your corals. Corals are not cheap. They are also long living animals. The idea is to keep them living and healthy for years, not months.

As for RO water, I think that it is one of the MAINSTAYS to keep a tank healthy over the long run.



JMO.

Beauty comes slowly. Disaster arrives quickly.

SH

 

[DigitalStorm]

SH, what about 4 in a 18g ;0)

 

[fishboytoo]

Thanks for the feedback. I have an update and, of course, more questions.

I have put the tank together. I have had to alter the refugium plan, as I realized I gave the aquaclear 70 away. I did some creative work with acrylic and an old filter for a 10 gallon to make an ugly HOB half gallon container. It drove my wife nuts, cutting all that plastic in the living room while she watched tv! I intend to re-work my design in the near future but for now it is a good place for the heater. Also waiting on proper lighting and a glass top.

Water(bought RO for $11) and live sand have been in for one week and the 21 lbs of live rock for 6 days. I have been monitoring water parameters: have zero ammonia, and have had a nitrite spike occur that is now approaching zero, at 0.2 ppm last night. This was also followed very closely by a rise in nitrate upto about 40ppm and is now starting to drop also, down to about 20 ppm last night. If this trend continues, I think it may soon be time to consider the CUC.

I would like to try add some pictures soon, as I am rather proud of my aquascape!

Now to the questions. I have been reading up on nitrate levels and have found various conflicting information on what levels would be considered appropriate before adding any livestock. I have found, on various websites, this value to range anywhere from 0.25ppm upto 100ppm. Now, I know 100ppm is absurd, and of course undetectable amounts are IDEAL. Where in-between these values should I wait until I add something that moves around in my tank? I am perfectly content to wait until the appropriate level is reached, I just don't know what that is. I await the wisdom of the collective.

Second question. I have noticed my pH has dropped from 8.2 on setup to a steady 7.9 for the past four days. Is this related to the cycling process or a whole new problem I am going to have to figure out?

 

[steelhealr]

RO water is the way to go. If there is one thing you want to spend money on, IMO, is pure water for the tank. Nitrates and phosphates are the bane of SW tanks. SH

 

[Harry1996]

your ph should go back to normal once the cycle has finished

 

[steelhealr]

I wouldn't add livestock until you can consistently keep your nitrates at 20 or under. 30-40 may be OK but I start to get real antsy when I start seeing orange. SH

 

[Harry1996]

i would say, add your cuc when your nitrate is 10 or below

 

[steelhealr]

10 is good but was tough even for me at the outstart. If you can get to 10, you are a wizard. My nitrates are consistently at zero but that's because my tank is mature. SH

 

[fishboytoo]

Thanks for the replies.

An update:
I replaced my crap-job refugium with a substantially better DIY version. This one is about 2.5-2.6 gallons HOB acrylic with some aragonite sand, live rock rubble, and a small bunch of chaeto. It adds about 12.5% total water volume to the system, which I think is good.

I found my first hitchhikers a couple days ago also. A mini brittle star-which I thought was the dreaded bristle worm, so I pulled one of his arms off with tweezers trying to remove him. Pretty stupid I now realize, but I made it up to him with a small bit of krill that he happily devoured. Then I saw an actual bristle worm, but it's the good kind that you can buy as a detritivoire-so I left him alone. Live and learn.

I took a water sample in to the LFS and they said I could add the CUC. My nitrates, with my home kit, are a bit above 10 so I think that should be ok. Interestingly, I think my pH test kit must be too old. The LFS said my pH was actually a bit high around 8.5, but I read anywhere from 7.9-8.1. So I did a bit of a test and dumped some baking soda into the test tube and the color didn't change one bit! I will have to try with a new bottle of pH reagent.

So, I came home today with 4 dwarf blue legged hermits, 1 scralet hermit, 1 electric blue legged hermit, 1 astrea snail, 2 banded trochus, and 3 nassarius snails.

I am a little concerned about the electric blue hermit as he has not moved much since going in. He just sits in one spot twiddling his claws and has even pulled back into his shell a couple times. The other crabs are crawling around the rock and picking at the algae. Is this a normal behaviour for a crab??