Really Struggling

[kimmiecat]

Hi all. I'm very new to keeping fish and I am getting very discouraged.

I got a 10 gallon tank for my daughter for Christmas. It has brightly colored gravel for substrate, silk aquarium plants and a plastic castle. We set it up and let it run for 72 hours, adding Seachem Stability according to package directions. Then we added 4 platies and a cory catfish.

About 2 days later, we had ich. Treated it and only lost 1 platy.

About 3 weeks later, 2 platies died. I took some water to the pet store and they told me the ammonia was high. I started using the stability again and took the water to the pet store pretty regularly to test. Once they told me it was "good," we added a dwarf gourami, a platy and another cory. And I bought some test strips and an ammonia kit.

On my home testing, I have never gotten nitrates or nitrites on my dipstick, a ph of 6-7 and ammonia from 0.5 to 8.

I have done so many 30-50% water changes. I use seachem stability and prime with every change.

Lost the original cory about a month ago. Have been doing water changes 2-3 times a week- any time ammonia tested over 2. Water was getting really cloudy, so when the ammonia was 0.5 twice in a row, we added 2 new cories.

That was Tuesday.

Thursday the nitrates and nitrites were still 0. Ammonia was 1. Did a 20% change.

Saturday, one cory dead this morning on my way to work. This evening after work, ammonia 4, still no nitrates or nitrates on dipstick. Both other cories dead. Did a 50% change. Both platies acting normal.

What is happening? Why is there never any evidence of cycling? What am I doing wrong?

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF. And to the hobby--it can be successful, so let's try to get you on that path.

First, do not even think of getting more fish until this is well sorted out. The advice from the fish store has not been too bad (compared to some) but they did go off a bit and it is something you have to always question with research or on a forum like this one.

Cycling is clearly the main issue here, but there are others. On the cycling, while I have myself used Stability, it is not the best for new tank cycling. Tetra's SafeStart is better, and since you have fish still alive, I would try to get a small bottle of this. Alternatively, can you return the fish? You could then do a fishless cycle; there are articles in the Cycle section here. I'm going to move on to the other issues.

Ich is common when fish are new and under stress. Unfortunately the cycling at the same time only made this worse, and the initial cory probably died from the medications and cycling; the later cory deaths are likely due to the ammonia. Cories are not hardy fish and are highly sensitive to any form of nitrogen such as ammonia (nitrite and high nitrates too). And they do not tolerate any medications well.

The water is likely on the soft side if the pH is below 7, and this is bad for the platies; they are livebearers and need moderately hard water, so the soft (assumed) and slightly acidic water is weakening them which makes them more susceptible to other issues. And the ammonia further stresses them of course. You should confirm the GH (general or total hardness) and pH of your source water, presumably tap water; check with the water authority, directly or on their website. If soft water is the norm, then in future selecting only soft water fish species will be necessary.

Another issue here is the tank size; 10 gallons is small and the store has been selling you fish not really suited to this size of tank. We can come back to this later, as the first thing is to get the tank cycled, find out the water parameters of the source water, and decide about the fish that survive depending upon how the cycling goes and the GH/pH result.

 

[FishGuest5123]

Byron has offered some good advice. I would suggest getting an API Freshwater test kit too. The strips are simply not reliable. The Safe Start will help a great deal!

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

In addition to what Byron has mentioned, you should reduce feeding to 2 times a week and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate 4-8 hours after feeding. You should also do a 75% water change any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Anything that breaks down in the water, be it fish food, fish waste, dead plant, dead fish, etc, produce ammonia. In a healthy tank with an established filter, the ammonia is eaten by beneficial bacteria and converted into nitrite. You get more good bacteria that eat nitrite and convert it into nitrate.

In a new tank the bacteria is not normally present and you get a build up of ammonia that harms and can kill the fish. By reducing the food going into the tank, you help to keep the ammonia levels lower. By doing big water changes, you help to dilute any ammonia in the water.

A few weeks after the tank has been set up, you get the first colonies of good bacteria that eat the ammonia. A couple of weeks after that you start to get the other good bacteria that eat the nitrite. It normally takes about 4-6 weeks for an aquarium to develop the colonies of good bacteria that keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at 0.

When the ammonia and nitrite levels have gone up and come back down to 0, and the nitrate levels start to go up, the tank will be considered cycled (developed the necessary good filter bacteria) and you can feed the fish once or twice a day and do a 75% water change once a week. Until then you keep feeding down and water changes up.

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If you contact your water supply company (via website or telephone), you can ask them what the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of the water is. If they can't help you then take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and ask them to test it for you. Write the results down in numbers and post them here. When they do the test, ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH or something else).

 

[kimmiecat]

Thanks, everyone.

I am still struggling. I think I need to order a test kit as the strips definitely don't seem reliable.

According to the strips, the GH is 0-30, the KH is 0-40, pH is 6-6.5.

I will get a gravel vacuum and some Tetra SafeStart. This tank has been up and running since December and is still, as far as I can tell, not cycling at all.

I can decrease feeding to twice a week. How do you suggest I clean the gravel after they eat. I was under the impression the gravel vacuum will also essentially be a water change.

My 2 platies are still hanging in there, though they were hiding a lot yesterday.

The water also recently went really cloudy then suddenly clear again.

I just ordered a test kit on Amazon, so I should have more accurate water test results by Monday...

Thanks for your help!

 

[Byron]

The GH and KH and pH numbers seem to confirm that you have soft water. Right off, platies will not live long in soft and/or acidic water. While this is not likely the cause of the deaths so far, the soft acidic water has weakened them severely so they are struggling just to carry out their normal life functions. I doubt the store would take them back now, but it would be advisable. Moving forward, we can suggest soft water fish that would not have this issue.

The cloudy water is not usually a problem. This is most likely due to the bacteria multiplying (not nitrifying bacteria, different types).

If ammonia or nitrite are testing above zero, do a partial water change (50-60%) with Prime. Prime detoxifies ammonia and nitrite, but both will still show in tests. Prime is effective for 24-36 hours, so if they still show after that, do another water change. Vacuum into the substrate at each water change.

 

[FishGuest5123]

You can purchase vacuums that are water changers also or you can purchase just a syphon vac. I have a Python for my large tank, syphons for my small ones, and Colin’s water bottle trick for my pond.

 

[Colin_T]

Get a basic model gravel cleaner like the one in the following link. It will let you clean any uneaten food and fish waste out of the substrate when you syphon some water out.
https://www.about-goldfish.com/aquarium-cleaning.html

 

[kimmiecat]

Hi, all.

Unfortunately, my last 2 platies passed away while we were on vacation for 2 days. They were sluggish when we left and covered in a fuzzy white film and dead when we returned.

We emptied the tank, threw away the gravel, cleaned (with no soap!) all the decorations and aquarium pieces.

So, we're going to start over from scratch.

Help me do this right!

We're going to buy some new gravel. Should I just get new decorations or will these be OK?

I have a master test kit now - and Seachem Stability, Seachem Prime, Tetra SafeStart. I also have a syphon vacuum.

The plan right now is to get everything set up tonight, then use the master test kit to see where I'm starting. From there, use the Tetra SafeStart according to package directions. Then test every 48 hours until I see ammonia go up, then nitrites, then nitrates while the ammonia and nitrite go down.

Will the safe start be adding enough ammonia and bacteria to help get the cycle moving?

Thank you for all your advice!

 

[Byron]

Assuming you have not yet acquired anything new, like the new gravel, you should think through the fish that will be in this tank, and ensure their needs are met. For example, if cories are intended, the substrate is better as sand, not gravel, and a neutral colour is better for the fish (and viewing).

The decor should be OK with a good cleaning. Use a dilution of bleach and water, then rinse very well in tap water, then let air dry completely. This is no good for wood or rocks as they can absorb chemicals, but the artificial plants and castle should be OK (assuming they were sold as aquarium decor so they will be safe to use).

Tetra Safe Start is intended to be used with the first fish in the tank. You should not see ammonia or nitrite at all provided the fish are very few and gradual and you use the SafeStart as directed on the label.

Now for the fish...this is a small tank, and thee best fish will be nano species. You have soft water so you have more options than you would with hard water. Do not consider any livebearers: guppies, Endlers, platies, mollies, swordtails. None of these will live long in soft acidic water. Some of the smaller tetras and rasboras will work, and a group of cory catfish (five minimum). All of these are shoaling species, so they must have a grop of each species, so keep that in mind. The cories, maybe panda cory in a group of six, and a group of seven of a small sized tetra or rasbora, or similar.

 

[kimmiecat]

Ok, I can do sand. I just love something about cories.

So, how should I start this?

Get everything set up and running... then add... what? a couple tetras, then use the SafeStart? I don't mean to sound like an idiot, I just don't want to hurt any more fish.

 

[Byron]

Ok, I can do sand. I just love something about cories.

So, how should I start this?

Get everything set up and running... then add... what? a couple tetras, then use the SafeStart? I don't mean to sound like an idiot, I just don't want to hurt any more fish.

Set the tank up with the sand, décor, filter/heater running. Sometimes it is best to let the tank run like this, complete but no fish, for a couple days to make sure you like the aquascape as moving things around may stir up the sand or whatever. There is no need to use any conditioner at this stage, so don't waste it. Once things are the way you want them, you can add the conditioner. Now you are ready for fish and the SafeStart.

What fish are you intending? Shoaling fish are best added together, the entire group; they will settle in much faster with less chance of ich this way. I would introduce the upper fish before cories, cories can go in last. I may have more when I know the intended fish.

 

[kimmiecat]

Probably tetras? I will probably go to the actual fish store instead of the pet store to buy fish this time, so it will depend somewhat on what they have.

My next time off during their open hours will be Wednesday morning.

 

[Byron]

Probably tetras? I will probably go to the actual fish store instead of the pet store to buy fish this time, so it will depend somewhat on what they have.

My next time off during their open hours will be Wednesday morning.

On the fish, to avoid a repeat, do not take the advice of fish store employees without confirming it. The best way here is to note down the fish you like, and post the species in this forum so we can advise. "Tetras" covers hundreds of species, some very small, most larger, some huge. Some are peaceful, some active, some nip fins, some attack fish, some live near the substrate, some near the surface, some need currents, some need quiet water, some need warmer temperatures than others...as you can see, all of these things matter. You do not want to come home with a group of fish and then have to take them back or get rid of them somehow.

Also see what cories they have, here too there are size differences that will matter in a 10g tank.

What sand are you thinking of getting?

 

[kimmiecat]

I just wandered around the PetCo (I work inside a PetCo) - all the tetras look really big. Are there specific small species of tetras?

6 or 7 tetras and 6 cories won't be overstocking the tank?