Please don't crossbreed your Endlers!!

[copeina]

These fish are nearly extinct in the wild and need YOUR help to continue as a species.

A lot of people mention in their posts that they keep their Endlers in community tanks and the randy little buggers get it on with anything that looks their way.

These offspring have no value in the natural world, and should be destroyed rather than distributed. Further crossing, especially back to another population of Endlers will only lead to the eventual elimination of any true Endlers fish (if it hasn't already happened - the jury is still out on that very topic).

See here for more information:

http/members.cox.net/newcomb1/emails.html

It is unlikely that these fish will ever be reintroduced into the wild, as their habitat is now a garbage dump in Venezuala, but the least we should be doing as hobbyists and this planet's caretakers, is to try and preserve their existance on Earth.

Please at least read and understand this plea. If you do cross these fish with other species, do not distribute them, especially under the name Endlers to other hobbyists or LFS's.

/Kris

 

[Olive]

These fish are nearly extinct in the wild and need YOUR help to continue as a species.

A lot of people mention in their posts that they keep their Endlers in community tanks and the randy little buggers get it on with anything that looks their way.

These offspring have no value in the natural world, and should be destroyed rather than distributed. Further crossing, especially back to another population of Endlers will only lead to the eventual elimination of any true Endlers fish (if it hasn't already happened - the jury is still out on that very topic).

See here for more information:

http/members.cox.net/newcomb1/emails.html

It is unlikely that these fish will ever be reintroduced into the wild, as their habitat is now a garbage dump in Venezuala, but the least we should be doing as hobbyists and this planet's caretakers, is to try and preserve their existance on Earth.

Please at least read and understand this plea. If you do cross these fish with other species, do not distribute them, especially under the name Endlers to other hobbyists or LFS's.

/Kris

what are endlers?

 

[fishdudein]

Olive
These are a small guppy type fish, looks very much like the original wild type guppies (don't call me the expert here,read an article about a year ago on them--you know how things get fuzzy,though). Very vibrant colors, maybe a bit smaller than "regular" guppies.

Copeina
My L F S had some of these, I thought they were very good looking fish, but I refused to buy them because they were in a tank with fancy female guppies. I do not understand the thinking behind this, they do the same thing with different strains of platies and color varieties of swordtails. It's no problem for them at the time of sale to net out a pair of red brick swords for you, but when you get them home and the female drops her fry and they turn out to be "mutts" because the male green sword in the same tank got to the female first, it's discouraging. .Anyway, I agree with you totally,very good point, thanks for bringing it up. And I won't buy MY Endler's until I know I'm getting a pure strain.

 

[guppymonkey]

I don't understand the argument behind crossbreeding endlers. There are thousands of endlers in captivity (if not more) even if the species is extinct in the wild. The population of purebred endlers is only going up. There are probably more endlers now then there ever were in the wild. I could understand keeping the blood line pure if the species was severely endangered but its not. If it was that endangered they wouldn't sell them in pet stores. If you are mad at people for crossbreeding send emails to breeders and tell them to send female endlers to pet stores so people can actually breed them.

 

[Cheese Specialist]

These offspring have no value in the natural world, and should be destroyed rather than distributed.

You people are like Nazis. Only wanting 'pure' fish. It's still a life and destroying them is out of order.

Edited to get rid of offensive word, sorry to those who it was not aimed at.

 

[HeatherSweetness]

My endlers are pure. I have orange chested endlers and peacock endlers.

 

[Olive]

My endlers are pure. I have orange chested endlers and peacock endlers.

I hear that you sell them???

 

[HeatherSweetness]

Matter of fact,I have another load for sale. Check in the buy,sell and swap section I posted them there. I need to thin out my ten gallon I have SO MANY it's harder and harder to keep the tank clean.

 

[copeina]

You people are like Nazis. Only wanting 'pure' fish. It's still a life and destroying them is out of order.

Apparently I have offended one bleeding heart. Normally I would not care, but I don't take kindly to being compared to a Nazi (unless it's the Red Baron... everybody needs a hero! )

Would you prefer if I asked for the crossbreeders to "segregate and maintain these specimens in their own collections, fed with only the best morsels and kept in the cleanest of sparkling spring water until they pass on naturally after the longest of most pleasent lives", or would that just bring on accusations of encouraging concentration camps?

How is not distributing or destroying a (potentially) unnatural hybrid evil in any way? Compare this request to the everyday practice of collecting fish that have no chance to be bred in captivity, and using poison or explosives to do so (any salt guys out there?). Compare this to buying a fish that you know nothing about and having it die a week later for no apparent reason other than it never ate while in your care. Compare this to mass-producing millions of goldfish for use as pirahna fodder (my LFS alone sells 1600 a week). Take any part of our hobby and trace it back ecologically. I believe selective captive breeding is an incredibly responsible activity compared to most other aspects of the aquarium hobby.

As for the guy who claims that captive endlers populations are increasing worldwide, this is likely true, but the genotype is limited. If one of these massive populations is contaminated with chromosomes not specific to the species, that population is lost. All it takes is one well meaning hobbyist who received some endlers from a "reputable" source and an entire collection is nullified. Most of the debate surrounding the species revolves around that possibility. There may be no true endlers reamaining in captivity, and there may be no more in the wild . In that case, this discussion is moot, and the earth has lost another battle with ignorance.

But hey, some of you claim you can sell hybrids to the LFS as the real deal for $3.50 a pair. If I had a sweet deal like that, how could I say no?

Read. Understand. THEN comment.

 

[Auratus]

If everyone thought like you there would be no friggin fish left. Almost all livebearers are hybrids. The long finned guppies, lyretail mollies, balloon mollies, and other things you can think of. Let's not even get into cichlids... my god. Even bettas for that matter. We put these long fins on the fish. They are not this way in the wild. We bred that trait into them and I'm sure that would qualify as "impure" to you. And you need to blame the people in venuzula for making venezula a trash dump, not the fish keepers who keep their fish happy and healthy. If you keep posting like this your not going to be very popular around here. If you think this way with fish I would hate to know your thoughts on inter-racial marriage. And yes, you do kind of come of as a "nazi".

 

[Olive]

Matter of fact,I have another load for sale. Check in the buy,sell and swap section I posted them there. I need to thin out my ten gallon I have SO MANY it's harder and harder to keep the tank clean.

well okey dokey then...................

 

[guppymonkey]

This is a strange debate. Normally I would agree that keeping species pure is a good idea but I don't see the justification in killing hybrids. Most likely endlers are a "species" (I put that in quotes because its not a proven fact that they are a separate species) whose existance was caused by some sort of separation from the rest of the guppy species. By being isolated they got different traits. While I think it would be tragedy for the endlers as a "species" (or subspecies as it remains to see) I also think it would not be the best solution to just kill off any hybrids.

I kind of agree that killing hybrids is a Nazi-like act. You are putting endlers as a higher species (master race) over the regular guppy. And by saying that hybrids are inferior could be an allusion to the Nazi laws against intermarrying with Jews. I think most people would say that comparing fish genocide to human genocide is wrong but fish are living things. Some people say that all living things have a right to live (PETA).

I don't think I would want to kill any hybrids if I managed to keep any of the endlers alive. All of the endlers I have tried to keep ended up dying, probably because they were so inbred that they required special care. By keeping endlers pure you could end up having them become so inbred that they could put the "species" as a whole in danger.

 

[Cheese Specialist]

You people are like Nazis.  Only wanting 'pure' fish.  It's still a life and destroying them is out of order.

Apparently I have offended one bleeding heart. Normally I would not care, but I don't take kindly to being compared to a Nazi

I don't think people like you should beallowed to keep pets. I suppose you club mongrel dogs as well.

If you don't appreciate being called a Nazi, don't share principles with them.

Is "bleeding heart" supposed to be an insult?

How is not distributing or destroying a (potentially) unnatural hybrid evil in any way? Compare this request to the everyday practice of collecting fish that have no chance to be bred in captivity, and using poison or explosives to do so (any salt guys out there?). Compare this to buying a fish that you know nothing about and having it die a week later for no apparent reason other than it never ate while in your care. Compare this to mass-producing millions of goldfish for use as pirahna fodder (my LFS alone sells 1600 a week). Take any part of our hobby and trace it back ecologically. I believe selective captive breeding is an incredibly responsible activity compared to most other aspects of the aquarium hobby.

I do none of those things and nor do many people knowingly. You weren't talking about selective breeding. You were talking about "destroying" the offspring whish is another thing entirely.

People like you make me sick, how is a non-pure fish less important than a 'pure'? Many fish are not 'pure' and I find this a good thing. I understand that Endlers need to be conserved if they are rare in the wild but I do not think that will ever justify killing fish just to stop them breeding. That's much like Hilter killing Jews to stop them breeding, hense you being compared to a Nazi.

Now, why don't you Read. Understand. THEN comment.

 

[keith]

I say breed some cool fancy endlers and sell them everywhere you can

 

[copeina]

sama: oy, vay.

So according to your logic, if humans intervene to remove an endangered species from its rapidly destructing ecosystem, that is good. Then, if rather than trying to preserve the species and whatever unique characteristics that identify them as a species, we should casually allow them to crossbreed with anything they can, even if there was no chance of the 2 creatures ever interacting in what was their natural habitats. Then, we should argue that the man-made hybrids are of no less ecological importance than either of the parent species. You folks should get together and start a Greenpeace chapter. I'm sure they'd welcome you with open arms (not!).

Maybe someday peole like you can help save millions of endangered species, not by preserving their habitat or supporting captive breeding programs, but by figuring out how to cross animals like pandas to koalas and tigers to housecats. The world would be a better place, and we'd have far fewer species to keep track of!

While I agree that any life is of no less value than another, I guess maybe I do goose-step to a different drummer than the average online aquarist.

I'm not even going to read the responses this generates. Maybe I'll just go away, or maybe I'll create a new user name and repeatedly ask questions like "How do I breed my guppies?" like the rest of the members here. In the meantime, you can all continue your letter-writing campaigns and picketing anything with "stewardship program" or "conservation committee" in their names.

Smooch-heil! :saddam: