Plants and high PH

[Ann from Vermont]

Hi, I set up a 125 gallon tank a month ago. My substrate is half pea gravel and half florite. I have around 20 plants in the tank and 14 small fish. My ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings are all zero. I have well water that tests between 7.6 and 7.8 depending on the day. Lately I've been getting very high PH readings. The plant guy at local fish store told me to check the PH early in the morning before the lights came on and again in the evening. I did that today and my PH was 8.0 in the AM and 8.8 this evening. My water turned cloudy several days after setting up the tank, and the last few days has become very green. Plant store guy says it's because I need a Co2 system...he says it's cheap.....that he has one that sells for only $40 and I would need 2 of them. I'd like to get a Co2 system someday....but I was thinking the $200 semi sutomatic variety. I'm not ready to do that now and don't want to waste $80 on cheap ones. Can my plants really be the cause of my PH problem??? I did my first water change of about 10% a few days ago.....my water only got greener and my PH went higher. Tonight I did a 30% water change and put in 12 gallons of distilled water. for the moment it looks a lot better. Tomorrow is buy one/ get one free fish day at the fish store and I want to add some more fish. Could my problem just be that I have yet to have a balance between plants and fish?? Sorry if this is too much of a beginnrs question, but I'm really asking more about the plants and their effect on the PH. Thanks
Ann from Vermont

 

[Silly me]

What your light levels in you tank???

Its not the PH swing that caused the green algae in the water.. there must be more to the water that changed than just the PH.. I also use well water in my tank and the waters PH is also higher that my testkit can read.. but I nevver had a algae bloom due to the PH..

 

[Ann from Vermont]

Hi, I just wrote a long response, and seem to have lost it, so will try again. My lights are 2 36" light sets, each set has 3 bulbs. 2 bulbs are:
Coralife 50/50
6000K / ACTIMIC 03
F 30 - T12 - BP

4 of the bulbs are:
Aqua Rays - GE - Fresh and Salt Water
F 30WT8 -AR-F9 30 W

I bought the aquarium used from someone who had only had it for 6 months and was moving south. He used it for a Monteray eel and one large fish. To be honest I had assumed that with 6 florescent bulbs that I would have more wattage per gallon, but I see that it only adds up to 1.44 W per gallon. I know bulbs are only good for about 6 months, but was trying to get the basics set up before replacing bulbs. If it wasn't for the $ 80 I already have invested in Florite and the $ 80 I've invested in plants, I might consider doing Ciclids....which might be happier in my high PH water. I'm feeling very confused and discouraged at the moment.

Local plant guy suggested today that I remove 3 large rocks that I have in the aquarium. I think they are petrified wood and if so he said that could really affect the PH. Those 3 rocks have been in aquariums I have had off and on since I was a child....they are 50 years old.......admittedly this is the first time I have really been serious about aquariums and tested. It's had not to be serious about a 125 gallon aquarium!

But here's what is bothering me: If the PH problem was something in my substrate or decorating rocks, why would the PH change so much from am to pm? And if it all has to do with the plants and Co2, how can tht be because my plants are still so small??

Tests on my tank today:
early am before lights on: 7.4
this evening: 8.4
KH 5
GH 6
phosphate .05

Tap water ( from well ) tonight:
PH 7.8
KH 6
GH 6
phosphate .05

If my PH is just going to be high, then I guess I could give up the idea of a planted tank and do ciclids, but even then, don't I have to solve the problem of the major PH swing from am to pm??

Thanks so much for your help!

Ann from Vermont

 

[panboy]

im kinda stumped to, but from what i know, petrified wood wont effect the ph.

i have a large piece in my tank and it doesnt change anything.

i kind of understand what your lfs guy is saying, about co2

it can help lower ph, because co2 will do that, but it wont fix your problem.
my tap water ph is high 7's, but with the co2, its 7.2 max.

it can help, and if you want to try, you could try the DIY method, even though it will require many 2liter bottles, i have 2 for my 46g, so maybe 4 2liters?......

howver you still have to find out what is effecting it so much....
sorry, just trying to help as much as possible

i've been having lots of troubles with my planted 46g, and its difficult to make everything how you like it, and ive been getting discouraged, but from help from people on this forum, i have a couple ideas to help my tank and help me not get discouraged.

dont give up, its worth it.

 

[panboy]

i also got another question regarding co2.....

i have seen some ph/kh co2 charts.... and it doesnt go past 7.8

so if u have a 7.8 and really high kh, u cant read how much co2 u have......

does this mean co2 with this type of water is useless?

 

[Ann from Vermont]

I've been to several fish stores around town as well as calling the fish techs at Foster and Smith. No one has an explanation for the big swings I am getting in PH. I took out all the big rocks today and went for broke....I did a 90% water change. I realize that that probably means that I will have to cycle again, but at least my water is clear. I really don't have much to loose. I just need to get my water to stabilize. If the PH ends up high, I will give up on the planted tank and go with ciclids....who knows, maybe the plants I have will grow too??? At any rate, my aquarium looks pretty tonight and I no longer feel like giving up. Thanks for the responses....this is a great site with wonderful people!! This aquarium stuff is much harder than it looks which makes for a good challenge.
Ann from Vermont

 

[Silly me]

Could you get a bucket with your well water, and leave it next to the tank, and test the water in both to see if the swings is the same..

There is a small change in your KH carbonates (CaCO3), so there must be something in the water that is dissolving carbonates (CaCO3) into your tank water..

I also know that there is a small possibility that well water is under pressure and causes a lot of CO2 and other gasses to dissolve at a much higher rate than normal water, and ones the pressure is released the water loses the carbonic acid caused by the CO2 and other gasses dissolved in the water.. almost like opening a soda bottle very slowly

 

[gale]

I also know that there is a small possibility that well water is under pressure and causes a lot of CO2 and other gasses to dissolve at a much higher rate than normal water, and ones the pressure is released the water loses the carbonic acid caused by the CO2 and other gasses dissolved in the water.. almost like opening a soda bottle very slowly

I have well water too. Straight from the tap it tests about 7.6 but in my tanks (with no suspect ornaments) it tests 8.4 and more. I haven't tried letting some tap water sit and test it, but I'm pretty sure when I do I'll find that the ph is rising on it's own.

 

[vidiots]

I would imagine that your PH swings are from the lights comming on and the plants starting to grow and as the grow they consume CO2 which raised your PH. Then at night the lights go out and the plants stop growing and using CO2 with begins to accumulate and Lower the PH. If you are having drastic swings in PH I would imagine that is because CO2 is currently the limiting factor for your plant growth. There are some things you can do to prevent the swings.

1. Increase the buffering capacity by raising the hardness.

2. Lower the light level or nutrient/fertilizer level to cause something else to be the growth limiting factor.

3. Add CO2 only durring daylight hours.

4. Set up another panted tank and a system to circulate the water between the 2 tanks and set the timer to have the lights on at the opposite time as the other tank so that the CO2 levels balance eachother out.

I'm sure there are other things that can be done as well, but this is all that has come to mind while writing this message.

 

[Ann from Vermont]

Sorry for the delayed response. Yesterday we had some frozen pipes and a plummer here most of the day.

I took the aquarium lights off the timer ( They had been on for 12 hours a day ) I had them on for just a few hours in the evening last night. This morning my PH was 7.8 ( same as the morning before my big water change. ) My fish are all fine and aquarium still looks relatively clear today. I didn't turn the lights on till 1 pm, so they were on for 9 hourstoday, and this evening my ph was 8.0 . I set aside a bucket of tap water today. PH of tap water was 7.8. It will be interesting to watch it for a week or so and see what it does. Thanks for the idea Silly Me.

I did set up a 33 gallon tank 11 days ago. It has lots of big rocks in it.....no plants. At the moment it has seven 4 inch goldfish in it. In the spring the fish will go into my outdoor water garden, I'll add a heater to the 33 gallon and I want to try Lake Tanganinka Ciclids. The water in that tank is usually 7.8 .... ..probably because this is the tank that I wish would have the higher PH for the ciclids!!

The water in my 125 gallon is still pretty clear....at least much much better than it was a few days ago. I think that reducing the "lights on time" helps....but how long can I do that for before affecting the plants?? However when I look at the 33 gallon tank.....which is crystal clear...then the big tank no longer looks so clear. The 33 gallon is 48" long and only about 12" tall. It has nothing special in terms of lights but sometimes I think it may look clearer and brighter than the big tank because the distance from the lights to the gravel is so much less than on the big tank. Can that make a big difference?

Gale, you said that your tap water tests 7.6, but in the tank it tests 8.4. Is the 8.4 consistent am and pm or do you get the shifts that I was getting? I'll keep testing and see if I can see a pattern.

I do plan to buy some fish tomorrow to put in the 125. At the present time I have 14 very small fish ... I think I may need more to be able to see a cycle happen in the tank.

Vidiots, You said that I could prevent the swings by increasing the buffering capacity by raising the hardness. Are you referring to the KH or the GH. What would I add to do that? If I can continue to only get a PH swing of 7.8 to 8.0, I'll be very satisfired. If it returns to going from 8.0 to 8.8 in one day, then I've got to try something! I already have half florite in the tank, so can't lower fertilizer in that sense. I do occasionally throw in a capful of Florish Excel. I think that is supposed to help with Co2..I think Florish makes a regular fertilizer, but I think the Florish Excel is more for the CO2....and since I usually forget to put it in, it probably isn't dong muchanyway. Does anyone else use this? If I really thought it worked, I would probably be better at remembering to add it..

Thanks again for all the help.

Ann from Vermont

 

[gale]

Gale, you said that your tap water tests 7.6, but in the tank it tests 8.4. Is the 8.4 consistent am and pm or do you get the shifts that I was getting? I'll keep testing and see if I can see a pattern.

Actually I've only tested at night. I can't do something that delicate during the day while my kids are on the move. lol. At night my husband can corral them in the living room so I can test in peace. I might give it a try on a sunday though.