Planning for 38-gallon community tank, looking for advice!

[xxtarajean]

So I'm not a complete beginner but it has been many years since I've cared for an aquarium and they’ve always been in the 10-20-gallon range. This is a long-winded post but I want to make sure that I do everything right! We went to some local pet shops this evening to scope out our options, and did some research from there. The following is what we've come up with so far. Any advice greatly appreciated!!

2 gold gouramis (unsure about these ones: will they be too big? Anything else you'd recommend? I was thinking a pair for the biggest in the tank, or maybe a species that likes to be the only one of its kind but will still do well in a community?)

3 black mollys (1 male, 2 females?)

3 sunburst wag platys (1 male, 2 females?)

3 tequila sunrise delta guppies (all male)

5 long-finned black skirt tetras

6 neon tetras

2 bristlenose plecos

3 mystery snails

We’ll definitely be getting some live plants, other various structures to swim around and hide in, and maybe some fake plants as well. As far as the live plants, we’re thinking several rooted varieties and maybe some that float as well. Not sure which varieties exactly. For food, basic flake, algae pellets, and bloodworms should do the trick and we'll be sure to mix it up for them when possible (I read that bristlenose plecos like zucchini? lol). I have looked up their various needs, and it looks like 7 pH, 7° dH and temp of 24°C (~75°F) are what I need to be at if this list is what we go with. I still have to refresh on the other water chemistry stuff. Any advice on that is appreciated… Should I get conditioner, or wait until I test my tap water? What about bacteria starter - is that just for people who wants to speed up the first cycle process in order to be able to add their fish in sooner? If you managed to get through this entire post, please let me know if there's anything I'm forgetting about!

 

[xxtarajean]

It wouldn't let me edit to add: the tank we're looking at getting comes with a Penguin BIO-Wheel Filter.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

First, on water parameters. If you are on municipal/city water you will likely have chlorine, and/or possibly chloramine, in the water. A quality conditioner is thus necessary. If you are on a private well, maybe not, depending upon the water quality.

Assuming the GH and pH numbers are from the municipal water authority, you have moderately soft/moderately hard water. The GH is not going to alter much, unless you were to target it in the aquarium. The pH may lower a bit, depending upon the KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) which you don't mention. See if this is given in the data on your water authority's website.

These numbers rule out any fish requiring harder water, such as the livebearers which includes guppies, platies and most emphatically mollies. These species all require some level of "hard" mineral (calcium and magnesium primarily) in thee water or they will weaken and waste away.

The other species mentioned are softer water and should have no problems in this regard. However, there are some issues in behaviour/temperament.

Black Skirt Tetras (Black Widow) are feisty tetras, and prone to fin nip sedate fish but sometimes others too. They would need a larger group to help control this, but still no sedate fish in the same tank. As this species will limit tankmates, you might want to leave them out. There are many peaceful tetras we could consider.

"Sedate" fish refer to species that are not active swimmers and tend to cruise around. Gourami are sedate fish, so any active fish is bad with gourami present, and even peaceful active swimmers can be tempted to fin nip sedate fish. But another problem occurs with the gold gourami, and that is that this species is one of thee most aggressive of the small/medium gourami. There are several varieites such as gold, blue, opaline, cosby, marble, 3-spot, maybe others I cannot remember, and all are the same species, Trichogaster trichopterus. Male gourami are territorial and the degree they enforce this varies, but this species is especially so. But even females have been known to literally kill every other fish in the tank. There is a thread started last week I believe from someone with two gold gourami who is already experiencing aggressive problems and dead fish. If you really like "gourami" in general, there are better options, but remember the tankmates need to be similarly sedate fish.

Bristlenose plecos are fine, but males are territorial and it is best not to have more than one male in this small a space, though with lots of chunks of wood it might work out.

Neon tetra, I would have a larger group as you have space; six is often the "minimum" for a shoaling species but in every case more will be better for the fish so here maybe 8-10. They prefer it cooler than some tropical, around 74-75F is fine. But other fish considered will need the same temperature range.

Bacterial supplements to quick-start the nitrifying bacteria will not hurt; some are good, others less so. But provided you have live plants and some of these are fast growing, this will handle cycling itself. Floating plants once they show signs of growth are excellent for this, plus all forest fish appreciate them to shade the light.

Byron.

 

[xxtarajean]

Thank you so much for the great advice! I really appreciate it.

I did also post this to reddit and have gotten some feedback on there throughout the day as well and now my list is down to 8 neon tetras, 1 bristlenose pleco, and 3 mystery snails. Any suggestions on other tetras or gouramis I could add in? Or any other species for that matter? I'd like at least a bit of variety as long as everyone will be healthy and happy!

Welcome to TFF.

First, on water parameters. If you are on municipal/city water you will likely have chlorine, and/or possibly chloramine, in the water. A quality conditioner is thus necessary. If you are on a private well, maybe not, depending upon the water quality.

Assuming the GH and pH numbers are from the municipal water authority, you have moderately soft/moderately hard water. The GH is not going to alter much, unless you were to target it in the aquarium. The pH may lower a bit, depending upon the KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) which you don't mention. See if this is given in the data on your water authority's website.

These numbers rule out any fish requiring harder water, such as the livebearers which includes guppies, platies and most emphatically mollies. These species all require some level of "hard" mineral (calcium and magnesium primarily) in thee water or they will weaken and waste away.

The other species mentioned are softer water and should have no problems in this regard. However, there are some issues in behaviour/temperament.

Black Skirt Tetras (Black Widow) are feisty tetras, and prone to fin nip sedate fish but sometimes others too. They would need a larger group to help control this, but still no sedate fish in the same tank. As this species will limit tankmates, you might want to leave them out. There are many peaceful tetras we could consider.

"Sedate" fish refer to species that are not active swimmers and tend to cruise around. Gourami are sedate fish, so any active fish is bad with gourami present, and even peaceful active swimmers can be tempted to fin nip sedate fish. But another problem occurs with the gold gourami, and that is that this species is one of thee most aggressive of the small/medium gourami. There are several varieites such as gold, blue, opaline, cosby, marble, 3-spot, maybe others I cannot remember, and all are the same species, Trichogaster trichopterus. Male gourami are territorial and the degree they enforce this varies, but this species is especially so. But even females have been known to literally kill every other fish in the tank. There is a thread started last week I believe from someone with two gold gourami who is already experiencing aggressive problems and dead fish. If you really like "gourami" in general, there are better options, but remember the tankmates need to be similarly sedate fish.

Bristlenose plecos are fine, but males are territorial and it is best not to have more than one male in this small a space, though with lots of chunks of wood it might work out.

Neon tetra, I would have a larger group as you have space; six is often the "minimum" for a shoaling species but in every case more will be better for the fish so here maybe 8-10. They prefer it cooler than some tropical, around 74-75F is fine. But other fish considered will need the same temperature range.

Bacterial supplements to quick-start the nitrifying bacteria will not hurt; some are good, others less so. But provided you have live plants and some of these are fast growing, this will handle cycling itself. Floating plants once they show signs of growth are excellent for this, plus all forest fish appreciate them to shade the light.

Byron.

 

[Byron]

Thank you so much for the great advice! I greatly appreciate it.

I did also post this to reddit and have gotten some feedback on there throughout the day as well and now my list is down to 8 neon tetras, 1 bristlenose pleco, and 3 mystery snails. Any suggestions on other tetras or gouramis I could add in?

I would be skeptical of any advice from reddit, though to be honest I don't understand this. Anyway, stay with fish forums like this one. First, anyone can start up a website or give "advice" as an expert but they may well be anything but expert. On TFF you have several knowledgeable members and anything that one of us posts is thus subject to what scientists term "peer review," and errors are quickly pointed out/corrected. We also have sites that are owned and managed by biologists and ichthyologists and are thus reliable for information or data on species. Seriously Fish is one of the best.

As for gourami, most require more warmth than the neons. The Honey Gourami, in a trio perhaps (one male, two females) might be one option. But I would be cautious with any gourami in with neons; neons can become fin nipping with gourami too, sometimes.

As for other tetras, the options are almost endless. These are all shoaling species, so a group of whichever, say 7-12 depending (some like the Rummy Nose need 9+). Black Phantom (if you liked the Black Widow shape and colour, this is a peaceful substitute), Red Phantom, Rosy, Ornate, Bentosi, Roberti, Rummy Nose, Pretty. Bleeding Heart Tetra gets larger than these others, and might serve as a substitute for gourami.

For the substrate, a group of cory catfish perhaps? They would get along with the BN. A group of 9-12 would be preferable.

 

[xxtarajean]

So if I were to have 8-10 neon tetras, 10 black phantom tetras (or another one you mentioned depending on what I can find near me), 1 bristlenose pleco, 10 cory catfish, and some snails, how many bleeding heart tetras would be a good number in your opinion? This many won't be overfilling the 38-gallon tank?

I'll be sure to keep with this forum!

I would be skeptical of any advice from reddit, though to be honest I don't understand this. Anyway, stay with fish forums like this one. First, anyone can start up a website or give "advice" as an expert but they may well be anything but expert. On TFF you have several knowledgeable members and anything that one of us posts is thus subject to what scientists term "peer review," and errors are quickly pointed out/corrected. We also have sites that are owned and managed by biologists and ichthyologists and are thus reliable for information or data on species. Seriously Fish is one of the best.

As for gourami, most require more warmth than the neons. The Honey Gourami, in a trio perhaps (one male, two females) might be one option. But I would be cautious with any gourami in with neons; neons can become fin nipping with gourami too, sometimes.

As for other tetras, the options are almost endless. These are all shoaling species, so a group of whichever, say 7-12 depending (some like the Rummy Nose need 9+). Black Phantom (if you liked the Black Widow shape and colour, this is a peaceful substitute), Red Phantom, Rosy, Ornate, Bentosi, Roberti, Rummy Nose, Pretty. Bleeding Heart Tetra gets larger than these others, and might serve as a substitute for gourami.

For the substrate, a group of cory catfish perhaps? They would get along with the BN. A group of 9-12 would be preferable.

 

[Byron]

So if I were to have 8-10 neon tetras, 10 black phantom tetras (or another one you mentioned depending on what I can find near me), 1 bristlenose pleco, 10 cory catfish, and some snails, how many bleeding heart tetras would be a good number in your opinion? This many won't be overfilling the 38-gallon tank?

I'll be sure to keep with this forum!

What are the tank dimensions? I know it is 38 gallons, but length has a major impact.

 

[xxtarajean]

It's 17" Deep; 32" Wide; 25" High

What are the tank dimensions? I know it is 38 gallons, but length has a major impact.

 

[Jake3030]

I would keep tetras and corys in as high groups as possible. If you want the gourami I would do a dwarf powder blue female or another option could be an angelfish

 

[xxtarajean]

This is what we're working with so far minus the eucalyptus root we have soaking in the tub if that helps!

What are the tank dimensions? I know it is 38 gallons, but length has a major impact.

 

[Byron]

The tank dimensions work best with less active swimming species, or more sedate fish. So building on the neon tetras and Bristlenose, the group of Corydoras are OK. The Bleeding Hearts could work; a longer tank, say 36 inch minimum, is preferable, but they are not particularly active (my group certainly wasn't) and I've mentioned them because they are a bit larger so more "noticeable," and they are mid-level fish. Many fish have definite preferences for specific levels in the water, and you want to even this out so everything is not crowded in one level. But it might be better to go with a group of Rosy Tetra, or the very beautiful Roberti Tetra. These do like to stay lower down though, and we are back to everything in the lower half of the tank. Which applies to many of what I previously suggested, except the Pretty Tetra (Hemigrammus pulcher, not as commonly seen for reasons I have never fathomed because it is a lovely little fish).

 

[xxtarajean]

So we went to another fish shop today to check out more options, and the below is our working list; let me know what you think:

1 angelfish, 10 bloodfin tetras (bf saw these today and really liked them), 12 neon tetras, 10 julii corydoras, 1 bristlenose, some snails, and maybe a few african dwarf frogs? I've had the dwarf frogs before and seeing them today made me want them again haha. I seem to remember them hanging out near the top a lot as well but from what I've looked up they're mostly bottom-dwellers so I'm not sure if those plus the corys and bristlenose would be too much for the bottom layer even with all of the plants and other hiding spots? We also got some floating plants and moss to add in! Eucalyptus root is still floating after over 24 hours lol so we have to leave it in the tub another night. Hoping to add it into the tank and attach the moss to it tomorrow!

The tank dimensions work best with less active swimming species, or more sedate fish. So building on the neon tetras and Bristlenose, the group of Corydoras are OK. The Bleeding Hearts could work; a longer tank, say 36 inch minimum, is preferable, but they are not particularly active (my group certainly wasn't) and I've mentioned them because they are a bit larger so more "noticeable," and they are mid-level fish. Many fish have definite preferences for specific levels in the water, and you want to even this out so everything is not crowded in one level. But it might be better to go with a group of Rosy Tetra, or the very beautiful Roberti Tetra. These do like to stay lower down though, and we are back to everything in the lower half of the tank. Which applies to many of what I previously suggested, except the Pretty Tetra (Hemigrammus pulcher, not as commonly seen for reasons I have never fathomed because it is a lovely little fish).

 

[Jake3030]

I dont know much about frogs but the fish list seems great! Glad your getting some bloodfin tetras I have a school in my 30 gallon and I love them! Good luck with the tank

 

[Essjay]

I would forget frogs for this tank. If you want them, get another, frog only tank.

I too have had adfs before - they shared a tank with a betta - and never again. It was a nightmare trying to get food to them. I had to construct a frog feeding station out of a terracotta plant pot but the betta still managed to get inside and eat all the frogs' food. I eventually set up my quarantine tank, split the filter media and moved the frogs into the QT.
If the tank is really 25 inches tall, that is a long was for an adf to swim to reach the surface.

 

[hobby5]

Welcome to TFF! I really appreciate that you inform yourself before buying any fish

No to the frogs (slow eaters, difficult to feed in a community tank) and no to the Angel fish (tank too small).

We don't have any water parameters yet?

So general advice for a tank of this size is 1-3 species. Less is more considering number of species! It is much better instead to have a decent sized group of any shoaling species. It is better for the fish and it also looks better than a mixed group of fish.