Piranha Over Filtration.

[waterdrop]

I believe the vast majority of reports on TFF are in agreement with Alex. Healthy bacterial populations of the two species desired for biofilters begin to die back after 12 hours without ammonia or even faster without fresh water and oxygen. There are a few reports of some tries with the frozen BioSpira(USA) or Bacinettes(sp?)(UK) products seeming to help a little but even most reports about those are negative. My own take from reading and searching here on TFF is that bacteria in a bottle just doesn't work.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[piranha_tim]

Well I hope my Piranha lives I am certainly attempting to make the effort under these conditions

 

[ALEXF]

so long as u keep up with the water changes you should be ok. test the water too to make sure things are good.

 

[waterdrop]

Are you able to hold ammonia and/or nitrite at 0.25ppm or less (zero) with the current water change regime? That would be the test/goal I would think.

(I have not studied your threads, just happened upon this)
~~waterdrop~~

 

[piranha_tim]

Are you able to hold ammonia and/or nitrite at 0.25ppm or less (zero) with the current water change regime? That would be the test/goal I would think.

(I have not studied your threads, just happened upon this)
~~waterdrop~~

Here is the basic run down.

I went to buy a fish from a private owner ... he could talk the talk BUT
when I came to get the fish he had pulled the filter already and was dry.
I brought buckets to bring back the water.
When I was tending to the Piranha I did not notice he thrown the water out.
In the End ... I had 3 cms of water in the tank and a 1/2 bucket of water inwhich the fish was transported in.
The unit came with 30 gallon tank, heater, Topfin 30 mechanical filter, lid and light.
I filled the tank with temperature controlled water conditioned tap water.
I bought a second filter an aqua clear 3 stage filter and running the Topfin 30 with original filter just incase I can get benefits.
I top the tank up 20% every day with temperature controlled water conditioned tap water.

The fish even as we speak is swimming around the tank not showing any signs of hard breathing. And is eating maybe not in the excited manner as expected but when food enters the tank he is out investigating the manner.

Whether or not this was smart I went into the pet store where they use to breed piranhas and asked for a test kit inwhich he replied "30 gallons 1 fish 20% changes I wouldn't worry about it its probably levelling out."

Thats where we are to date.

 

[ALEXF]

Like i said, that dry filter pad, is where the bacteria did live. water changes and water tests are what you need to do. The reason you test the water is ammonia and/or nitrite at 0.25ppm or less more than that gets toxic and starts doing damage. So long as you are under those stats your ok. ideally you want them at 0 ppm.

 

[piranha_tim]

Like i said, that dry filter pad, is where the bacteria did live. water changes and water tests are what you need to do. The reason you test the water is ammonia and/or nitrite at 0.25ppm or less more than that gets toxic and starts doing damage. So long as you are under those stats your ok. ideally you want them at 0 ppm.

And control more or less is just a manner of water changes ... the larger amount until we get the frequency right?

Does the Condition tap water not cause problems? Possibly from the water conditioner? this is the reason why I have kept the changes so low. I would happily do more knowing the piranha would be confortable with it.

Heck I did a 20% change today already I could do a 40% right now if it would help.

Unfortunally I cannot get a testing kit until tomorrow.

Like i said, that dry filter pad, is where the bacteria did live.

Being that the original filter is obviousely useless and the tank has only been running 4 days would be it be wise for me to simply buy a new filter? Instead of running the original?

 

[ALEXF]

Like i said, that dry filter pad, is where the bacteria did live. water changes and water tests are what you need to do. The reason you test the water is ammonia and/or nitrite at 0.25ppm or less more than that gets toxic and starts doing damage. So long as you are under those stats your ok. ideally you want them at 0 ppm.

And control more or less is just a manner of water changes ... the larger amount until we get the frequency right?

Does the Condition tap water not cause problems? Possibly from the water conditioner? this is the reason why I have kept the changes so low. I would happily do more knowing the piranha would be confortable with it.

Heck I did a 20% change today already I could do a 40% right now if it would help.

Unfortunally I cannot get a testing kit until tomorrow.

youll be fine until without the test kit. The conditioned water doesnt effect anything. Other than the fish needing it to live. Ammonia and nitrites are your worry. as ammonia breaks down it turns into nitrites and the nitrates. You want to keep those 2 levels low as they are the most toxic to the fish. The reason for the water change is to keep those levels down. Your fish is what is producing the ammonia. Now if you had nitrates present then it would break those 2 down. but becuase you have nothing to break those down you have to remove them until nitrates develop. Does that make sence? And waterdrop a little reasurrance as to me explaing it right would be helpful.

 

[piranha_tim]

I have one more question slightly off topic of the cycling.

I have setup the tank with alot of fake seaweed for the piranha to hide in.

I feel comfortable knowing when I make tank changes he simply just hides in this moderately relaxed.

But the problem is I have put the seaweed right against the tank wall and he seems to have trouble navigating like he is trying to navigate around the seaweed as he bumps the side of the tank. I am sure its just the reflection or something as this is the only side he seems to have trouble.

Should I make the effort and move this knowing that while I work on his "hide out" he is going to freak out stressing the fish or should I just for the time being let him continue with this behavour while the tank is under these conditions.?

It bothers me I would like him to live as well as possible but I couldn't see him freaking out right now being good for him either.

 

[ALEXF]

really im not to sure on this sorry. I dont think think it causes that much stress, if any as people rescape there tanks from time to time. im not really poistive thou. As far as the filter pad, since you have had it going for a few days i wouldnt bother it as it is probably starting to work the cycle and if you did it would be starting all over once again.

 

[piranha_tim]

Just it sucks ... I walked into the room he is in ... in a rish this morning and he saw me from across the room darted into this seaweed and straight into the side of the tank.

He hit it so hard the plastic lid flap rattled ...

I am not feeling so comfortable with that so I am assuming distressing the animal by moving his 'hide out' is the best thing for him in the long run.

 

[CFC]

The only way to avoid the fish smashing itself into the glass is a larger tank i'm afraid, piranha are very skittish animals by nature and in a small tank it has no where to run when startled.

 

[piranha_tim]

The only way to avoid the fish smashing itself into the glass is a larger tank i'm afraid, piranha are very skittish animals by nature and in a small tank it has no where to run when startled.

So you don't see me moving the plants that our touching the tank side about an inch or two out helping at all? As I say he doesn't have this problem with any of the other 3 sides of the tank.

 

[CFC]

The fishes natural reflex is to get as far away from danger (you) as it can, and in this case that means straight into the back wall of the tank. A larger wider tank would prevent this from happening as much as the fish will have time to turn and stop before hitting the glass. Really the minimum sized tank for keeping medium sized piranha like red bellies is a 75g (48x18" footprint) but more ideally a tank that is 24" wide from front to back would be better.

 

[piranha_tim]

The fishes natural reflex is to get as far away from danger (you) as it can, and in this case that means straight into the back wall of the tank. A larger wider tank would prevent this from happening as much as the fish will have time to turn and stop before hitting the glass. Really the minimum sized tank for keeping medium sized piranha like red bellies is a 75g (48x18" footprint) but more ideally a tank that is 24" wide from front to back would be better.

Oh yeah 100% for sure I reconize I need a bigger tank and I am in the process of attempting to sort this out.

I am looking for measures to create the absolute best enviroment I can under these conditions.

Would putting a backing on that side possibly help as well?

As I say when frightened and runs in the opposite direction he reconizes the wall.

So I do have a small feeling some of this is reflection.

But I 100% reconize you are right ... he does need a bigger tank.