Overstocked?/

[GeffG81]

I currently have a 10 gallon with:

2 zebra danios
2 corys (1 albino, the other unknown)
2 fancy guppies
1 white cloud
1 loach of some sort, always swims on bottom and hides alot
3 ghost shrimp


Am I overstocked or just about where I should be?? When I look at it in writing it seems like alot, but all the fish are small and the aquairium seems almost empty.

 

[cheekeyarab]

IMO this does not seem a very good combination for your tank and YES you seem overstocked to me.

Firstly your tank is too small for danios and these need to be rehomed (also you need at least 5-6 of them which you can't do in that tank)

Secondly most loached need 2-3 to be happy. Do you have a pic so we can try and identify it?

I have never kept cory's so can't help you there.

So you need to rehome the danios and then see what others think with regards to what will be left.

 

[GeffG81]

No picture of the loach and it hides too much for me to get a good shot, but there were about 20 in the tank in the LFS and they all seemed very independant, no interactions with each other at all.

 

[GeffG81]

Just remembered, its a kuhli or something like that.

 

[abstract]

looks like a worm? then it is prolly a khuli...khulis should be in groups of 5-6+ ...

danios should be in at least a 20 gallon long tank and groups of 5-6+

cories need at least a 20 gallon and should be in groups of 4-5+

white clouds should also be in groups of 4+

i would take back the danios and khulis /or the danios and white clouds

i would then have a total of 4-5 pygmy cories, 5 or so guppies, and 4-5 khulis /or white clouds

 

[GeffG81]

I appreciate all of your info and advice, but I must say I disagree with it. The cories do not require 20 glalons, many people have them in tanks as small as 5. These cories are very very small, around 1/2 an inch maybe. Also the white clouds may thrive in large groups but mine seems to be doing fine schooling with the guppies and danios sometimes.

I just wanted to know if my tank was overstocked.

 

[abstract]

and the answer was yes

 

[sylvia]

How long have you had these cories? Albino cories are usualy the albino version of the bronze cory - croydoras aenus. These cories can get to between 2" and 3". They DO need a bigger tank than 10 gallons. I know lots of people keep them in small tanks but that doesn't make it right. People keep goldfish in bowls as well - does that mean that's ok?

Anyway, danios should be in a 20 gallon minnimum and in a gorup of 5 at least.
Cories, regardless of species, should be in a minnimum group of 4 total with at least 2 of each species.
Like has been said, khulie loaches should be in a group too. 3 at least is reccomended and white clouds do need to be in a gorup of 6 of their own species and are only borderline tropical fish, requireing cooler temperatures than most.

Obviously, your question has already been answered. You ARE over-stocked. However, 'over-stocked' doesn't apply only to boiload - it also means compatibility, physical space and minnimum tank size and other species-specific requirements. That's why the fish you have in your tank, their requirements AND their potential size/bioload are relevant to your original question and that's what makes your tank very much over-stocked.

 

[cheekeyarab]

I appreciate all of your info and advice, but I must say I disagree with it. The cories do not require 20 glalons, many people have them in tanks as small as 5. These cories are very very small, around 1/2 an inch maybe.

Just because other people keep these fish in tanks that are too small it does not mean that this is the right thing to do. Also fish have this bizarre habit of growing, it's a bugger I know but fish will be fish!

Seriously though try and reach a compromise of what you want in your tank and what will really thrive in there. I don't know about you but I'd hate to go through life 'just surviving' and I am sure fish are the same.

 

[abstract]

I appreciate all of your info and advice, but I must say I disagree with it. The cories do not require 20 glalons, many people have them in tanks as small as 5. These cories are very very small, around 1/2 an inch maybe. Also the white clouds may thrive in large groups but mine seems to be doing fine schooling with the guppies and danios sometimes.

I just wanted to know if my tank was overstocked.

sure and an oscar can be kept in a 5 gallon when its 1/2 inch too....fact is these fish actually grow and don't stay half an inch...

no fish requires any specific size tank theoretically....for a comfortable school where the cories have room to actually MOVE AROUND, 20 gallons is minimum, simple...i couldn't even imagine a poor, active cory stuffed into a 5 gallon tank - poor thing and shame on whoever you know that does that....just because someone else does it, does it make it OK?

what do you do when your school of cories is pushing 2-3" each? have you ever seen a full-grown cory? glad you'd rather have your fish "doing fine" as opposed to thriving.

rule of thumb is 1" of fish per gallon whether you like it or not.

2 zebra danios = 6-8"
2 corys (1 albino, the other unknown) = 9-12"
2 fancy guppies = 5-8"
1 white cloud = 2"
1 loach of some sort, always swims on bottom and hides alot = 5"
3 ghost shrimp

total = 27"-35" full grown = 3x overstocked

that is why i offered the advice i did...take it or leave it but if you're going to do the later anyhow, why ask?

 

[GeffG81]

I appreciate all of your info and advice, but I must say I disagree with it. The cories do not require 20 glalons, many people have them in tanks as small as 5. These cories are very very small, around 1/2 an inch maybe. Also the white clouds may thrive in large groups but mine seems to be doing fine schooling with the guppies and danios sometimes.

I just wanted to know if my tank was overstocked.

sure and an oscar can be kept in a 5 gallon when its 1/2 inch too....fact is these fish actually grow and don't stay half an inch...

no fish requires any specific size tank theoretically....for a comfortable school where the cories have room to actually MOVE AROUND, 20 gallons is minimum, simple...i couldn't even imagine a poor, active cory stuffed into a 5 gallon tank - poor thing and shame on whoever you know that does that....just because someone else does it, does it make it OK?

what do you do when your school of cories is pushing 2-3" each? have you ever seen a full-grown cory? glad you'd rather have your fish "doing fine" as opposed to thriving.

rule of thumb is 1" of fish per gallon whether you like it or not.

2 zebra danios = 6-8"
2 corys (1 albino, the other unknown) = 9-12"
2 fancy guppies = 5-8"
1 white cloud = 2"
1 loach of some sort, always swims on bottom and hides alot = 5"
3 ghost shrimp

total = 27"-35" full grown = 3x overstocked

that is why i offered the advice i did...take it or leave it but if you're going to do the later anyhow, why ask?

Abstact,
If you read my post, I disagreed with your requirements of cories being kept in a 20 gallon minimum. I am grateful for most of the advice, but I happen to disagree with that statement. I am not new to keeping fish, it just has been a while. Many of the things I read on some of these boards are a little extreme and when I had my previous tank for 8 years with a few fish surviving that long, I never did anything like cycling, water changes, testing etc. Maybe you are right, perhaps they "survived" but didnt "thrive" and I definitly should have done those things but just didnt know much about them. LFS dont really tell you these things as I assume they just want to make the sale.

As for your comment of "1 fish per gallon whether I like it or not", actually that is not the rule, whether you like it or not. It has been proven that this rule is ridiculous, and people no longer go by these requirements from what I have read. An example of this, is a 10 inch fish would not be able to survive in a 10 gallon, however you would be able to stock more than 10 1 inch neon tetras. (this is what has been told to me numerous times, I used to go by the 1 inch per gallon rule)


I actually dont beleive the zebra danios wll grow to 3- 4 SQUARE inches each, which is actually the requirements of the 1 inch per gallon rule.
I know for a fact that the corys wont grow to be 6 inches each because I have had albino corys that have lived for over 5 years and they grew to about 2 - 2 1/2 square inches at most. The guppies also will in no way grow to 4 inches each. The loach may grow to 5 inches in length but due to its slenderness, it would equal about 2 1/2 square inches.

While I may be overstocked, I am definitly not as extremely overstocked as you suggested.

Now despite all that I do appreciate your input and do not take personal offense to this, just wanted to let you know what I feel.

 

[FalconStorm]

While I agree with you, abstract, aren't those measurements a little over-done?

Do guppies really grow to 2 1/2-4 inches? I coulda sworn they reached 1 1/2-2 inches. Are you accounting for their bioload since they're so messy? Livebearers are horrible like that... *grin*

As for those cories...yeah...I've got two in a ten gallon that is very temporary. They will be upgraded to a 20 gal long when it gets set up and more will be added, although one I will not be able to match type, because I haven't a clue what type it is.... *sigh*

 

[GSD]

1.the coried need to be in groups of 5 or more
2.white clouds need 5 or more
3.the danios need 5 or more

ALL of these fish need to be in groups but you dont have the space your extremly overstocked so i suggest get a bigger tank or try and rehome the cory white cloud and danio

 

[FalconStorm]

As for your comment of "1 fish per gallon whether I like it or not", actually that is not the rule, whether you like it or not. It has been proven that this rule is ridiculous, and people no longer go by these requirements from what I have read. An example of this, is a 10 inch fish would not be able to survive in a 10 gallon, however you would be able to stock more than 10 1 inch neon tetras. (this is what has been told to me numerous times, I used to go by the 1 inch per gallon rule)

You know, some of that depends on the behavior, biological makeup and nature of the fish too. Neons are very low waste producers, so of course you can put more in a ten gallon tank than you could of guppies who grow to a similar size (not counting tail). Guppies produce much more waste, so they must be kept in smaller numbers.

Simple survival cannot be the sole determination of whether a tank is successful or not, either. Case in point: In a store, somewhere, there are a group of bettas that are kept in deplorable conditions. The live in 1/2 gallon vases with plants in the top of the vase. When their water is changed at all, it is changed with unconditioned water straight from the tap. They are fed once a week at the most. Because they do not die, for some reason, the owner of the store refuses to improve their conditions. He claims that he has never lost a betta, so there is no reason to change. I do not think you can tell me that these fish are thriving, but they are surviving. I would not want to be guilty of assuming they are 'just fine' because they are alive.

I know most conditions are not this extreme, especially yours, but it proves the point that 'alive' is not 'content'.

Also...where did you get the 'square inch' rule? I've never heard of using square inches. Curious...

 

[abstract]

that is why i called the 1" rule a "rule of thumb," not an experts solid rule...and how can any guideline (i.e. 1 square inch of fish per..) be accurate without taking into consideration bioload? i think THAT "rule" is outdated just as the 1 inch of fish per gallon guideline is...

most people on this forum have come to the conclusion that this is a good guideline to start from and increase the number of fish over time so that the tank can deal with the increased bioload appropriately ...obviously we take bioload into consideration thus exclude most tetras from this guideline/rule and it obviously changes when we are talking about cichlids and any high-waste producing fish - which is an understanding amongst those on the forum...

so the strict rule is 1 square inch of fish per gallon and everyone should follow that regardless of bioload? how exaclty do we measure square inches of our fish accurately, by the way?

nowhere did i say that cories grow to 6 inches...i actually misread it thought you had 2 plus one albino so that is my fault ) ...cories CAN reach 3-4 inches in size - i have seen it.

and yes female guppies really can get to 3-4" in length, i have also seen that lol...again, these were max sizes i listed so it was obviously overdone some...in general though, guppies do range within 2-3" (at least mine do)...

although you only disagreed with the fact that cories should be kept in at least 20 gallons, you said that you know people who keep them in 5 gallons IMPLYING that it must be OK...so what the tank is physically big enough, but does your square inches of fish per gallon take into account the quality of life for the fish?

it's easy to see that you have your own ideas, beliefs, and ways of doing things (obviously from previous fishkeeping experience), but you need to at least investigate the new practices before you discount them (as you have obviously done mentioning cycling, etc), even if you do not embrace them...

it is my belief, although it may seem outdated or incorrect to you for whatever personal reasons, that by offering to newbies the 1" of fish per gallon "rule of thumb" (aka guideline), that it is nearly impossible for them to severly overstock a tank. we should assume everyone is a newbie, which i do and offer them this advice...

fact is, it is easy to estimate the length of a fish (which in actuality should start from the base of the tail and go to the eyes - but i didnt state that) as opposed to guessing the square inches of the fish - which many would not be able to do easily, not to mention those who use metric

about the danios, they may not grow to 3-4 square inches but they are messy and do produce a lot of waste....

the suggestion i made were based partly on max size of fish when adult (i obviously never said you are overstocked now, i said you had the potential to be in the future), but based mostly on quality of life....many of us on the forum believe in schools of fish, and fact is, if you did increase the numbers so that you had proper schools, whether you follow the inches of fish per gallon or square inches of fish per gallon, you will be overstocked...

although you say you did not mean for me to take it personally, when you repeat others phrases in spite, it does turn personal...(not to mention if you are going to quote, at least use the whole statement - i said "rule of thumb is 1" of fish per gallon" to be exact

As for your comment of "1 fish per gallon whether I like it or not", actually that is not the rule, whether you like it or not