Not sure about pure ammonia cycling

[Bloopie]

I don't know about bothering with all these kits and waiting so long.
Is there anything else I can do?
I've been given a few suggestions from a number of LFS's.
For instance, using AquaSafe, then waiting a week and putting in a few fish at a time.
Also, using Mardel A.C.T, waiting a week and then to keep using it weekly...

Oh, and what can I take from an established tank to speed up the process?
I just took a decorational piece from an established tank (I just posted a picture of it on another topic) and am planning on putting it in... but will it actually speed up the process?

Thanks.

 

[Tolak]

If you want a nice end result, go with the fishless cycle. If you can't stand looking at an empty tank, cycle your filter for a few weeks on an existing tank, & hide the new tank where you don't have to look at it.

Tolak

 

[Bloopie]

If you want a nice end result, go with the fishless cycle. If you can't stand looking at an empty tank, cycle your filter for a few weeks on an existing tank, & hide the new tank where you don't have to look at it.

Tolak

[snapback]872287[/snapback]​

I have no access to other tanks and I can't physically move the new tank anywhere now, this isn't the solution I'm aiming for.

 

[Tolak]

The less chemicals the better. I assumed from another post that you had a coldwater tank running. My oops, sorry.

There is a product called bio-spira that some people have had good results with. It is active bacteria that must be refrigerated properly to work right. It greatly reduces, if not eliminates the cycling process. I've never used it, but have heard good things about it.

The problems with cycling with fish is that you need some hardy fish that you may not want in the future, the damage to these fish caused by ammonia & nitrites, and the daily water changes needed to keep these levels down. If you don't cycle with hardy fish you risk deaths.

Fishless cycling leaves you with an empty tank for a few weeks, but builds up a huge bacterial colony, allowing you to fully stock the tank from the beginning. Cycling with fish you can only add a couple of fish every week or so, and need to keep a close eye on ammo & nitrite levels.

I know it sucks looking at an empty tank for any amount of time, especially if it's in a really visible area of the house. I have a 65 in my living room I fishless cycled nearly 2 years ago. With fish waithing in a tank in the basement it just about drove me nuts.

I've got a cycling chart I stole off the internet for you that may help;

Tolak

 

[Bloopie]

Can't see the image...
I've heard about BioSpira and I've looked anywhere around for it but it's not available in my country. If only I had that!!!

Yes it does suck a whole lot, I wouldn't mind a week or even two but a month? or even more than that? plus the costs of the test kits, plus the cost of the pure ammonia... it's all turning into too much that I had expected...
I'm wondering if I should just get a bunch of zebra danios to swim around for a week or two, then add the other fish...

 

[pseud]

I understand your frustration and impatience, believe me. The quickest way to cycle a tank is as has already been stated, setting up your tank and seeding it with bacteria from an already cycled tank. The best way is Tolak's suggestion.

I'd highly discourage using any chemicals. They leave the water unstable, and it could crash in 6 months killing all your fish and leaving you having to start again.

The be all and end all of it is: To do it right takes time and patience. If you want to be a responsible fish keeper, do it right.

 

[Vivienne]

The waiting is a pain, but in the scheme of things, a few weeks isn't really that long. I just finished fishless cycling a tank and stocked it yesterday. While the wait is a pain it meant I could go out yesterday and stock the tank with lots of interesting fish all at once without worrying about poisoning them.

For another, smaller tank, I thought the filter had cycled fully through being in the larger tank all the time it cycled. Unfortunately it looks like the nitrite eating bacteria colony hadn't grown so much in this filter. I got this tank set up yesterday with a few fish and it has a nitrite spike. So now I'm doing water changes twice a day and every time I go to look at this tank I worry about how the fish are, and what I'm going to find. Why put yourself and the fish through this when you don't need to ?

 

[PeterM]

Chemical treatments for water are typically designed to reduce polutants and increase the ability of fresh water to encourage the growth of beneficial bacteria when youre doing a water change. A water conditioner by itself is not going to be enough to cycle a tank... theres simply no bacteria in there.

The fastest way to cycle a tank so you can use it for some fish, as mentioned before, substrate (either sand or gravel) from an existing setup as well as a filtration device from an existing setup. In this tank you could then have it running at half volume and add just a few hardy fish like Zebra Danios, which are typically resistant to uncycled water. However, this will only mean you can add a few more hardy fish solowly. Cycling this way takes longer to get the final stage though, and even hardy fish are prone to die during this process.

However, the fishless cycle is the ebst option by far and will result in perfect water conditions for fish in around two weeks. If you really want to stretch it, you could perhaps get away with adding fish after a week... but thats not recommended!

Dont forget that any stressful event in the life of a fish will reduce its lifespan. Its like in people, if you suffer from a serious disease and then get over it, the marks and scars and weakness will usually remain for the rest of your life. If the fish do survive the initial shock of being in an uncycled tank then their life spans will, more than likely, be redced quite significantly, and they will also be more prone to illness.

Cycling is not just for the benefit of fish. Many fish are so intolerant of uncycled water that they will simply die because of it. If nothing else, thats a waste of money.

Id suggest that if you really cant wait, then you probably shouldnt be keeping fish. Sorry. Cycling is one of the easiest aspects of fish keeping (you get everything together and you leave it til its ready, like soup), and there are far more challenging problems that you will more than likely have to face, like sick fish and hospital tanks and unexpected nitrite spikes. Those test kits really are invaluable.

 

[Firebelle_uk]

Bloopie, I am just reading more of the posts on here and I have to say I sympathise 100%. I'm sure my memories of my dad's fishkeeping efforts when I was younger though not perfect were not as disastrous as one would beleive and yet I know for sure all he did was leave the tank with the water and plants for a week before stocking. If it hadn't seemed that simple I would not have decided to take it up again myself. He used to syphon the bottom every week or so, but certainly never did water changes or ammonia tests etc I don;t think they were heard of then. He had the odd problem with agression but that was usually dealt with in the local lfs swap tankI'm beginning to think ignorance IS bliss and all the reading I've been doing is starting to make my head spin. I can't do anything just yet anyway because I need a tank stand built, and I'm seriously wondering whether to abandon the whole idea and sell the lot on again without bothering! I'm a fall time carer, and wanted the fish to help me chill out and relax in the evenings, I really wanted a small set up, but now understand this is much harder to keep going. The last thing I want or need is yet another time consuming and frustrating commitment, that said my compliments have to go to those who have healthy happy tanks - it obviously takes a lot of effort.
So stick or sell, and if I sell what shall I do instead?

Hope you find a solution

Firebelle

 

[pseud]

Firebelle - don't be discouraged. The initial learning process is daunting, but after you get your head around cycling and the nitrogen cycle, everything else is pretty simple! PM me if you need some advice.

 

[rdd1952]

Don't be discouraged. Doing a fishless cycle is so much easier than having to do twice a day water changes because your ammonia and nitrite are too high and then still having to scoop out dead fish. Also, it doesnt' take that long if done correctly.

As for the chemicals such as Aquasafe and Mardel (or an ammonia killing products), avoid them like the plague. You will be totally dependent on them forever and never have a cycled tank. That will get extremely expensive and it you ever go away for a week or 2 of vacation, your tank will be a disaster when you get back.

Bio Spira on the other hand is suppose to be a good product but I personally have not had the opportunity to try it yet. This is supposed to be a good source for ordering it online.

 

[Def]

Yes. Don't bother with those annoying water tests. It's all a big fish conspiracy created by people who want to keep the hobby elitist. Fish really don't produce ammonia, in fact they don't excrete anything at all. Instead they have an internal teleportation device that transports all waste matter to the pegasus galaxy. All that filtration equipment you bought is a placebo too. Really it's just to enhance the sales of plastics producers. Come on, it's not like these magical bacteria can appear from thin air then convert this non-existant ammonia into some other crazy chemical (lets call it nitrite, cause that sounds like "not right" and thus gives a feeling of fear and loathing), and then finally into nitrate. And this nitrate magically happens to not harm the fish, but to assist in the sales of plastic buckets from Walmart you must change some of the water every week or 2. Then of course you have to replace it with tapwater, which contains chlorine and chloramine to help increase sales of water conditioning products. If you didn't know, the CIA deliberately adds chlorine to the water supply because they own all the water conditioner companies.

It's a giant conspiracy, I tell you.

Yeah ok, I'm bored. But I'll bet you'll be back in a few weeks asking why all your fish are dying...

He used to syphon the bottom every week or so, but certainly never did water changes or ammonia tests etc I don;t think they were heard of then

Did he live in Elizabethan times then?

 

[Bloopie]

Yes. Don't bother with those annoying water tests. It's all a big fish conspiracy created by people who want to keep the hobby elitist. Fish really don't produce ammonia, in fact they don't excrete anything at all. Instead they have an internal teleportation device that transports all waste matter to the pegasus galaxy. All that filtration equipment you bought is a placebo too. Really it's just to enhance the sales of plastics producers. Come on, it's not like these magical bacteria can appear from thin air then convert this non-existant ammonia into some other crazy chemical (lets call it nitrite, cause that sounds like "not right" and thus gives a feeling of fear and loathing), and then finally into nitrate. And this nitrate magically happens to not harm the fish, but to assist in the sales of plastic buckets from Walmart you must change some of the water every week or 2. Then of course you have to replace it with tapwater, which contains chlorine and chloramine to help increase sales of water conditioning products. If you didn't know, the CIA deliberately adds chlorine to the water supply because they own all the water conditioner companies.

It's a giant conspiracy, I tell you.

Yeah ok, I'm bored. But I'll bet you'll be back in a few weeks asking why all your fish are dying...


QUOTE
He used to syphon the bottom every week or so, but certainly never did water changes or ammonia tests etc I don;t think they were heard of then


Did he live in Elizabethan times then?

[snapback]875921[/snapback]​

That was uncalled for. You're entitled to think whatever you want but just because you dedicate half your life to your fish needs doesn't give you the right to mock anyone for being a newbie to fishkeeping.

 

[Def]

That was uncalled for. You're entitled to think whatever you want but just because you dedicate half your life to your fish needs doesn't give you the right to mock anyone for being a newbie to fishkeeping.

It's not about you being a noob. Quote from your first post:

I don't know about bothering with all these kits and waiting so long.

If you can't be bothered with testing the water params now (in the "exciting" stage when it's all new and you're setting up your first tank), then you sure as hell won't be bothered later. If you "can't be bothered" to test the params, then you can't be bothered to keep fish.

This isn't some major scientific expedition you're undertaking. Fill a tube with some water. Squeeze a few drops of liquid into it. Wait a few mins. See what the colour is.

No matter what method you use to cycle your tank, you should be doing water tests. When your tank is cycled, you should STILL do water tests on an ongoing, less regular basis as lots of things can affect the parameters.

Fish WILL get sick and die due to bad water params, and I'll take a wild guess here but I assume you want to keep fish for the enjoyment, not for killing them. So do the water tests, or don't keep fish. It's for your own good, because if you ignore the advice then you'll be back here in a few weeks or so crying about killing a bunch of fish.

Oh, and I don't dedicate half my life to keeping fish. You got me confused with CFC. We both have the same attitude, I'm just better looking.

Enjoy!

 

[pseud]

Def > God.