Nipping algae in the bud?

[ellena]

I set up a tank Dec 9th. Juwel rio 180. Stocking as sig. I don’t want to go high tech, so plants are a large leaved Amazon sword and a couple of smaller ones. A bunch of dwarf sag, a crypt, anubias and a red leafed plant. Apart from the big amazon, all these came from my old tank/other people’s tanks. I recently got amazon frogbit to float too. The 2 I’ve bought were that Dutch brand, I forget the name. Substrate is unipac fine sand, which is more like fine gravel. I’ve used clay balls/fertiliser capsules where the plants’ roots are.
The lighting is 2 35w t5s on from 4-10 each day. I use flourish once a week, 3ml.
Several of the plants have dead stuff, but all apart from the small amazons also show signs of growth, so I’m hoping that’s just them needing time to settle in? The frogbit is less than a week in and detached leaves and roots are clogging the filter
I’m starting to see some algae too, so hoping to get on top of that before it gets on top of me.
All suggestions very welcome, thanks Here’s some pics

 

[mikey11]

i don't really see much out of the norm.....

nice tank

 

[Byron]

Ellena, the problem you have is the light. T5 fluorescent tube lighting is much more intense (= brighter) light. The black brush algae on the leaves of the Anubias is due to the light (this is a shade-loving plant and it frequently gets BBA in direct light that is bright). The swords will not have sufficient nutrients to balance, and CO2 is likely going to be the missing nutrient.

My suggestion would be to change the lighting. You could try floating plants, a thick layer, but they would have algae issues and the leaves might burn.

Byron.

 

[hobby5]

Hello Ellena!

Those T5 lamps give plenty of light (rather too much). To combat algae best thing is to have lots of well growing plants. Your tank for sure has not enough and importantly is missing fast growing plants. Also personally I consider 6 hours of lighting for too short. Minimum should be 8, but I would always aim for a normal tropical day of 12h. Your plants don't look too healthy, but if they show signs of growth all might still go well.

Good luck!

Didn't see @Byron's post. I don't completely agree. If you chose different plants things might work out well.

 

[ellena]

Thanks Byron, what sort of lighting would be better? I’ve looked at led, but the branded stuff is super expensive, but then there are some very cheap generic ones available...
Is removing a tube an option?
Would dosing CO2 help? I was trying to avoid it because, faff, but I could give easy carbo a try. You have to be careful with shrimps I’ve read.

 

[SnailPocalypse]

Something I learned from planted tank is Balance.Mostly when I have a algae problem it is usually the plants cant get the nutrients quickly enough to combat so I load the tank with more plants.

 

[ellena]

Thanks, what sort of plants could I try? I have shrimp in there are my lfs has the Dutch plants which are copper free and then the bunched stuff says not to add to shrimp tanks.
Something like hornwort floating?

 

[ellena]

i don't really see much out of the norm.....

nice tank

Thank you

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron, what sort of lighting would be better? I’ve looked at led, but the branded stuff is super expensive, but then there are some very cheap generic ones available...
Is removing a tube an option?

If you can remove one tube and the other still lights, that will probably work. Not all fixtures allow this (depends how they are wired and the ballast), so remove one and see. Spectrum of the tube is also important...can you give us the Kelvin? This will be a number (4 or 5 digits) followed by "K" and is the colour temperature of light. I can explain more once we know the K.

LED is expensive, for one that is good for plants. And forget the cheaper "generic" LED units, I tried five and all went back. Useless. There are good planted tank LED's, though expensive.

I am still using T8 fluorescent. Finding a fixture with T8 these days is not easy, as everyone is jumping on the LED bandwagon. I've no idea what you might find in the UK.

Would dosing CO2 help? I was trying to avoid it because, faff, but I could give easy carbo a try. You have to be careful with shrimps I’ve read.

The aim with planted tanks is to have the light sufficient for the plants, and in balance with nutrients. As soon as one of these is out of balance with the rest, problems. Sometimes minor changes like the duration of the light or adding fertilizer can help, but it depends upon the balance. With bright lighting, you are setting a much higher balance.

Adding CO2 along with the other nutrients would eventually get you to a balance, but it would mean much more emphasis on plants rather than fish. Some carbon supplements are not especially safe. Too much of liquid fertilizer in general will affect fish (and invertebrates). If you aim for a more natural or low-tech method, with less intense lighting and simple plants, including floaters like the Frogbit, you need much less fertilizers. You mention shrimp...copper is an issue for shrimp, but plants need copper. The lower amount of fertilizer in a low-tech method tank will not harm fish or shrimp. But if you start mega-dosing ferts you could.

I have shrimp in there are my lfs has the Dutch plants which are copper free and then the bunched stuff says not to add to shrimp tanks.

I'm a bit confused here...are you meaning Dutch plant additives with no copper?

 

[ellena]

Right, thank you, low tech is what I’d much prefer, but I’ve bought a tank whose lighting is a bit too much for that. I’ll try taking one tube out. It’s completely exposed to the top of the water though, the ends just screw in tightly to make a waterproof seal, so I’m not sure how safe that’ll be. Hmmm, do you know what might work? A dead bulb...
The kelvin is 8000. I’m familiar with the unit, but not how it corresponds to planted aquaria.
The plants are Tropica, remembered the name now. They’re a brand, grown or cultured in The Netherlands which are guaranteed copper free. The regular bunched plants are often treated with copper to cut disease, algae, snails etc and so can contaminate a tank with copper and harm shrimp.

 

[Byron]

Right, thank you, low tech is what I’d much prefer, but I’ve bought a tank whose lighting is a bit too much for that. I’ll try taking one tube out. It’s completely exposed to the top of the water though, the ends just screw in tightly to make a waterproof seal, so I’m not sure how safe that’ll be. Hmmm, do you know what might work? A dead bulb...
The kelvin is 8000. I’m familiar with the unit, but not how it corresponds to planted aquaria.
The plants are Tropica, remembered the name now. They’re a brand, grown or cultured in The Netherlands which are guaranteed copper free. The regular bunched plants are often treated with copper to cut disease, algae, snails etc and so can contaminate a tank with copper and harm shrimp.

The Kelvin is a bit on the blue side, and this is going to impact algae too. Plants need red and blue light which drives photosynthesis, and of these red is the more significant. I experimented with higher Kelvin tubes several years ago, on my dual tube tanks, having one 6500K and one higher (9,000K, 10,000K and 11,000K) and without question I had more brush algae problems with these tubes. After I reversed and went with one 6500K and one 5000K (warmer, because more red and less blue), algae issues completely vanished. Now, this has to be kept in balance, meaning that the intensity and duration, as well as the fertilization, were all factors. But with the other factors remaining the same, the change in K definitely decreased algae.

See if you can get different tubes for this fixture; it is clearly intended for marine tanks which need stronger blue light. But different spectrum tubes might help, though there is still the intensity issue.

I understand the copper issue now, thanks. I wouldn't put much faith in the plants being so free of "pests," as any treatment strong enough to actually kill algae and snails will inevitably harm the plant. This is likely more of a selling point. I never worry about this, as the conditions in the tank will determine algae, and snails that arrive on plants are beneficial.

 

[ellena]

The kelvin thing is something interesting to investigate, thank you. It seems there is also a 4100K available. Is that the pinky light? I’ve had those bulbs in the past, sold to enhance the fish’s colours, but I dislike the colour a lot
I’ve tried taking a bulb out, but I don’t think that’s safe, the fittings were all exposed. I’ve ordered another floating plant, red root, so I hope to cut light that way. I think my fish would look better in less light too.

 

[Byron]

The kelvin thing is something interesting to investigate, thank you. It seems there is also a 4100K available. Is that the pinky light? I’ve had those bulbs in the past, sold to enhance the fish’s colours, but I dislike the colour a lot
I’ve tried taking a bulb out, but I don’t think that’s safe, the fittings were all exposed. I’ve ordered another floating plant, red root, so I hope to cut light that way. I think my fish would look better in less light too.

The 4100K will be very yellow-orangish. Again with one of my dual-tube, I mixed a 6500K and a 4000K and while having the 6500K with it balanced it more, it was quite yellow.

On removing a tube, if the fixture will still ight with only one of the two tubes in it, do it. You can easily tape over the sockets with black electrical tape. The big question is, will the single tube still light; my dual fixtures need both tubes in. I suppose a burned out tube could be used, not sure if this would break the connection of not.

The fish colour enhancing tubes are high in blue and red, but nothing else. So they give a purplish light. The idea behind them is sound--red and blue drive photosynthesis, so one would think this would work, but ironically the intensity is always about half those with 6500K. The Hagen "Glo" series for example, has the Life-Glo at 6700K [this is without question the single most beneficial light tube over freshwater with plants] and the Aqua-Glo high in blue and red; the AG is half the intensity of the LG. This is in T8, I've no idea how the T5 tubes perform.