New tank stocking advice please!

[BeckyCats]

I finally wore my husband down. He said yes to a "small" tank in the living room. It won't be my future dream tank, but for now, I'll take it! My LFS is having a dollar-per-gallon sale on tanks so I would like to get one of the sizes they have. I know they have a 38 gallon (36.3" x 12.7" x 19.8") but I would of course, rather get the 45 gallon (same dimensions except more height (23.8" h). Either way, my family members all like angelfish so I would like to start there since I am eager to increase their interest in my hobby.

The tank will be planted, sand substrate, soft water, pH likely around 6.5ish (as in current tanks).

Now, I know angelfish can be aggressive, especially when they breed, and that either a 38 or 45 gallon is not large enough for more than a bonded pair. Can angelfish be happy alone or is it cruel to deprive them of a mate? I just don't know how to find a boded pair since they are almost always sold as juveniles. The advice I usually read is to get several, wait for pairs to form by themselves, and then give away the rest. I feel too bad to give away fish once they are already at home, so I'm not sure this is a viable option for me. That's why I'm wondering if they can live by themselves.

I saw a gorgeous adult angelfish that was already large, for sale at a store. If I got one like that (or got him), should I try to get it a mate or just keep it by itself? With guinea pigs, an adult can be intolerant of other adults but will accept a youngster and then grow up with it just fine. Is it the same with angelfish? If I got a singleton adult (there were no others with him) and then a juvenile, will the larger one be more tolerant of the little one or will it just be easier for him to kill the smaller one?

I have read that angelfish are fine with most tetras as long as they aren't small enough to eat. I was thinking perhaps congo tetras since they like the same temperature range as angelfish. Would 6 - 8 be too many?

Lastly, I will have bronze cories eventually to put in there. My bronze cories have produced yet another batch of filter babies (fry that I discover when I empty my filter into a bucket). They are in a breeding net at the moment but when they are big enough, I will move them.

Advice and experience, as always, is much appreciated! I am super excited and can't wait to get a new tank! Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!!!!!

 

[TekFish]

The options for most people are to get 1) a single Angelfish, 2) a mated pair of Angelfish or 3) Buy six of them.

I would under no circumstances buy 2 if you did not 100% know that they were a mated pair. It will result in one of them being bullied, possibly to death.

Angelfish are absolutely fine as a solitary fish, a mated pair, or a large group.

As far as Congo Tetras go, they would fit with Angelfish, as I have never heard of them being massive fin-nippers. Any full bodied Tetra would be fine, as long as they don't nip. It's mostly small, torpedo shaped fish that you need to avoid, like Neon and Cardinal Tetras.

As alternatives, Emperor Tetras are nice if you can find them.

The Corydoras will be fine with the Angelfish, they should leave each other alone.

 

[BeckyCats]

The options for most people are to get 1) a single Angelfish, 2) a mated pair of Angelfish or 3) Buy six of them.

I would under no circumstances buy 2 if you did not 100% know that they were a mated pair. It will result in one of them being bullied, possibly to death.

Angelfish are absolutely fine as a solitary fish, a mated pair, or a large group.

As far as Congo Tetras go, they would fit with Angelfish, as I have never heard of them being massive fin-nippers. Any full bodied Tetra would be fine, as long as they don't nip. It's mostly small, torpedo shaped fish that you need to avoid, like Neon and Cardinal Tetras.

As alternatives, Emperor Tetras are nice if you can find them.

The Corydoras will be fine with the Angelfish, they should leave each other alone.

Thank you! I am hoping to get that particular angelfish but I doubt he'll be available by the time I can get a tank set up. My daughter actually prefers discus (6 years old and already has expensive taste ), but I've researched them and I'm not prepared to take on that level of maintenance at this point. Angelfish have a similar look, being rounded. My husband likes them a lot, and frankly, he's the one I really want to bring over to the dark side. Ha ha!

 

[Byron]

I generally agree with what TekFish posted here, but there are some issues that may have escaped attention.

First, the angelfish. I certainly agree it should be 1, a bonded pair, or a small group (5-6 minimum). You haven't space for the group, obviously, so that leaves the single or bonded pair. Many will go for a single angelfish, but from the fish's point of view, I find this less than advisable. Here I will digress into ichthyology.

Fish, like all animals and plants on this planet, have evolved to function best in very specific environments. This is programmed into the DNA, and it is not going to change except through very long-term continuing evolution. "Environment" includes many things: the water parameters, the habitat features (substrate, wood, rock, plants, light, etc), other species that share the same neighbourhood, and the number of fish in the individual species itself. As soon as you place the fish outside this "environment," it will probably be stressed to some degree. Stress weakens fish, and is directly responsible for 95% of fish disease in an aquarium.

Turning to the angelfish, Pterophyllum scalare (this is the natural species of all the varieties developed by man in the hobby), this fish is programmed to live in small shoals. By small I mean not large as in the shoals of hundreds and thousands for the characins and cories and such, but smaller groups. Discus are the same. To deprive this fish of what it "expects" is something I personally do not recommend. I know it is done, but none of us can possibly be certain of how this will or may affect the fish. I think the aspect of this hobby that has been ignored too often is providing the most natural environment for the fish we keep.

Now to the tank size. Get the largest you can manage under your circumstances. Height is the least important dimension compared to length and width, but it is important when considering fish dimensions. Tall fish like angelfish with an 8-9 inch vertical fin span need vertical space; tetras generally do not, and length and width are more important. However, when it comes to two tanks of the same footprint, the higher is usually the better choice because this increases the possibilities for fish numbers.

In my fishroom of 8 tanks, I have two that are 36 inches in length. One is 12 inches width (a 33g), the other is 18 inches (a 40g "breeder"). The 40g is far superior, even for my small shoaling fish. I have my wild caught pencilfish, hatchetfish and false/green neons in the 40g, and it is quite remarkable how their activity changed when they were moved from the narrower tank. It does make a difference.

If you really do intend a single angelfish, or a bonded pair on their own, this tank at 36 inches is OK, but the width of only 12 inches is a problem. This fish will get to six inches in body length, and the tank width would be better at 18 inches. In the narrower tank the fish will not have much turning space, and they do have territories which here will be the entire tank.

Congo Tetra is going to feel cramped in anything less than 4 feet. Back in the 1980's I had a group of five in a 4-foot 55g, which was just enough room. I have had a group of 7-10 in my 4-foot 90g now for several years (had 10 for a year, then lost 3 of the females to a protozoan, so my 5 males and 2 females now enjoy the space and have for 2+ years. The males will pair up and run relays the full length of the tank, fins spread wide and shimmering; quite the sight, but it needs space to do this.

Thinking along lines of angelfish, a good alternative here would be a group of Pearl Gourami. This is a beautiful fish, and fairly peaceful. Just a thought.

Byron.

 

[BeckyCats]

I generally agree with what TekFish posted here, but there are some issues that may have escaped attention.

First, the angelfish. I certainly agree it should be 1, a bonded pair, or a small group (5-6 minimum). You haven't space for the group, obviously, so that leaves the single or bonded pair. Many will go for a single angelfish, but from the fish's point of view, I find this less than advisable. Here I will digress into ichthyology.

Fish, like all animals and plants on this planet, have evolved to function best in very specific environments. This is programmed into the DNA, and it is not going to change except through very long-term continuing evolution. "Environment" includes many things: the water parameters, the habitat features (substrate, wood, rock, plants, light, etc), other species that share the same neighbourhood, and the number of fish in the individual species itself. As soon as you place the fish outside this "environment," it will probably be stressed to some degree. Stress weakens fish, and is directly responsible for 95% of fish disease in an aquarium.

Turning to the angelfish, Pterophyllum scalare (this is the natural species of all the varieties developed by man in the hobby), this fish is programmed to live in small shoals. By small I mean not large as in the shoals of hundreds and thousands for the characins and cories and such, but smaller groups. Discus are the same. To deprive this fish of what it "expects" is something I personally do not recommend. I know it is done, but none of us can possibly be certain of how this will or may affect the fish. I think the aspect of this hobby that has been ignored too often is providing the most natural environment for the fish we keep.

Now to the tank size. Get the largest you can manage under your circumstances. Height is the least important dimension compared to length and width, but it is important when considering fish dimensions. Tall fish like angelfish with an 8-9 inch vertical fin span need vertical space; tetras generally do not, and length and width are more important. However, when it comes to two tanks of the same footprint, the higher is usually the better choice because this increases the possibilities for fish numbers.

In my fishroom of 8 tanks, I have two that are 36 inches in length. One is 12 inches width (a 33g), the other is 18 inches (a 40g "breeder"). The 40g is far superior, even for my small shoaling fish. I have my wild caught pencilfish, hatchetfish and false/green neons in the 40g, and it is quite remarkable how their activity changed when they were moved from the narrower tank. It does make a difference.

If you really do intend a single angelfish, or a bonded pair on their own, this tank at 36 inches is OK, but the width of only 12 inches is a problem. This fish will get to six inches in body length, and the tank width would be better at 18 inches. In the narrower tank the fish will not have much turning space, and they do have territories which here will be the entire tank.

Congo Tetra is going to feel cramped in anything less than 4 feet. Back in the 1980's I had a group of five in a 4-foot 55g, which was just enough room. I have had a group of 7-10 in my 4-foot 90g now for several years (had 10 for a year, then lost 3 of the females to a protozoan, so my 5 males and 2 females now enjoy the space and have for 2+ years. The males will pair up and run relays the full length of the tank, fins spread wide and shimmering; quite the sight, but it needs space to do this.

Thinking along lines of angelfish, a good alternative here would be a group of Pearl Gourami. This is a beautiful fish, and fairly peaceful. Just a thought.

Byron.

That's a good point about the room to turn around. It did have quite long fins.

 

[TekFish]

A 38 or 45G tank is still a very good size, and your options are fairly open. If you're looking for colourful fish that grab your attention, there are many Tetra species that will do that, especially if you have soft water or are able to maintain a softwater aquarium. Alternatively, you gould have a Guppy tank, with many different colours and patterns to choose from. You could even get some females and breed them. The smaller species of Rainbowfish like Melanotaenia Praecox, or Iriatherina Werneri. Gouramis are also a viable option, and they serve the same purpose as Angelfish. You've got Corydoras, Rams, Kribensis. All of which would be a good match for those tanks, as long as you could provide the necessary water parameters. Personally, I'd go for a South American-style tank. Tetras, Pencilfish, Hatchetfish, Cories, Rams. That kind of thing.

 

[BeckyCats]

Thinking along lines of angelfish, a good alternative here would be a group of Pearl Gourami. This is a beautiful fish, and fairly peaceful. Just a thought.

Byron.

A 38 or 45G tank is still a very good size, and your options are fairly open. If you're looking for colourful fish that grab your attention, there are many Tetra species that will do that, especially if you have soft water or are able to maintain a softwater aquarium. Alternatively, you gould have a Guppy tank, with many different colours and patterns to choose from. You could even get some females and breed them. The smaller species of Rainbowfish like Melanotaenia Praecox, or Iriatherina Werneri. Gouramis are also a viable option, and they serve the same purpose as Angelfish. You've got Corydoras, Rams, Kribensis. All of which would be a good match for those tanks, as long as you could provide the necessary water parameters. Personally, I'd go for a South American-style tank. Tetras, Pencilfish, Hatchetfish, Cories, Rams. That kind of thing.

As it happens, I do have a pearl gourami that would likely be happier if he were moved. I bought 5 small pearl gouramis a number of months ago, hoping that most would be female, but none were. One of the males (The Boss) is quite aggressive to the others. He actually harassed 2 to the point of death. He won't let the others come out into the open. They have to hide all the time. Even when they are hiding, he will go looking for them to chase them. I tried to rehome one but it didn't pan out. I'm thinking if I move the aggressive one into the new tank, then he will have a whole tank all to himself and not be able to bully anyone anymore. I would feel bad about moving him but it seems like the most sensible course of action at this point. I was hoping to get that particular grown, solitary angelfish that I saw in the store, but if he won't even be able to turn around in comfort, then moving The Boss seems like a good alternative.