New Tank, Confused On Cycling And One Fish Moving Mouth Rapidly

[librarygirl]

Hi!

I'm very new to fishkeeping. Here's my story so far:

On March ~25, I set up a 5 gallon hex tank; treated water with Prime, has a filter, heater, bio wheel, substrate, light, fake plants and decoration. I let the tank sit for a week but didn't put food in there (didn't know I had to do this, PetSmart just said to set it up and let it run for 1 week)
On April 1, I went to Petsmart, had the water tested, they said all parameters were fine. Bought 3 GloFish which they said were hardy fish. One of the fish was chasing the others quite a lot, one began hiding more.
After a few days I did a water change (about 50% which I know now was probably too much), also the gravel cleaner I got was too complicated (had to shake it to get it to work which I couldn't) so I was rather clumsy in changing the water, lots of sloshing and movement.
The next morning one GloFish was dead (the one that was picked on the most and probably overly stressed)
I took it back to PetSmart and asked for advice. They suggested I get 2 more to even out the numbers, which I did. I had them test the water again then and again they said all levels were fine.

So my original fish have been in there for 2 weeks, the newer ones for 1 week. Four fish total.
All eating well, swimming well.

Purchaed a better siphon vacuum and water changes are less clumsy and more efficient now. Been doing small water changes daily. I also just purchased the API test kit, tested twice so far, most recent was last night. Nitrates/Nitrites both zero, ph was 7.6 on Friday, 6.4-7.2 yesterday (did two water changes yesterday which might be why, more on that below), ammonia holding at 0.25.

So yesterday morning when feeding I noticed one of my fish (been there for 2 weeks) opening and closing her (?) mouth rapidly constantly, doesn't stop. I thought she was chewing but she kept doing it even after they all ate. She eats well, swims around, does sometimes go to the top and skims her ahead along the water, but doesn't seem to be distressed other than the opening/closing all the time. The other fish don't do this constantly like she does. I'm not sure if she's always done this and I just haven't noticed or if this is new behavior. I got nervous yesterday morning when I noticed it, so did a 20% water change. Last night she was still doing it, and after noticing the ammonia still a bit up I got nervous again and did a larger water change (about 30-40%).

I've since read that some ammonia is normal for the cycling to occur, so I'm wondering if at this point i'm changing the water too frequently. But if the water quality isn't what's making her open/closing her mouth, I'm not sure what else it could be.

ALso if 0.25 is "normal" for cycling, then how often should I change the water? SHould it be every day as a rule until the tank cycles (and how would I know) or should I only change it if the ammonia goes up or if the other levels change? Also every time I change the water I use Prime....is this the best thing to use? SHould I be using somethng else? Am I using it too much?

And any thoughts on my fish with the mouth issue?

Thanks for taking the time to respond to a newbie. I just want to do this right and not lose any more fish

Thanks!

 

[KittyKat]

You should keep the ammonia as low as possible, well below 0.25 ppm is preferable. Above 0.25 ppm, it will be toxic enough to seriously harm fish.

You are still right at the start of your cycle, which is indicated by no nitrite and nitrate readings. Treat nitrite as you would ammonia.

I recommend that you continue using a dechlorinator which will deal with ammonia (such as Prime), and keep up the water changes. You are right to be doing plenty and using Prime.

What are your tap water readings?

GloFish® are zebra danios, and as such should be kept in groups of 6+ and have a larger tank than you do. I recommend 3ft of swimming space for these fish, from my experience with zebra danios. There are very few fish who will happily live in a 5 gallon tank.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks for your reply. Never tested my tap water before but just did so now, here's what I got:

ph: 6.4
ammonia 0.25
nitrate/nitrite 0

I'll do another 20% 1gal water change tonight after work, letting the water sit in Prime all day, and keep doing this every day and continue to monitor the levels.

I would like to get a larger tank when funds permit, hopefully fairly soon.

Any thoughts on the fish with the mouth issue? the others open/close as well (which I guess is normal lol) but they do not do so as rapidly or constantly as this other fish, it's tiring just to watch it! The fish look good, don't see any marks or white spots or discoloration, gills are prominent and pink/red, although they do swim very fast and being new to this I dont know that I would notice any subtle issues.

Thanks for the advice!

You should keep the ammonia as low as possible, well below 0.25 ppm is preferable. Above 0.25 ppm, it will be toxic enough to seriously harm fish.

You are still right at the start of your cycle, which is indicated by no nitrite and nitrate readings. Treat nitrite as you would ammonia.

I recommend that you continue using a dechlorinator which will deal with ammonia (such as Prime), and keep up the water changes. You are right to be doing plenty and using Prime.

What are your tap water readings?

GloFish® are zebra danios, and as such should be kept in groups of 6+ and have a larger tank than you do. I recommend 3ft of swimming space for these fish, from my experience with zebra danios. There are very few fish who will happily live in a 5 gallon tank.

 

[Randi]

A fish appearing to gasp for air is a sign of ammonia poisoning. I agree with everything that Kitty Kat said but would add, since bacteria can grow in your gravel I would stop vacuuming the gravel for now. Continue to do water changes but take them from the water column.

 

[fluttermoth]

A fish appearing to gasp for air is a sign of ammonia poisoning. I agree with everything that Kitty Kat said but would add, since bacteria can grow in your gravel I would stop vacuuming the gravel for now. Continue to do water changes but take them from the water column.

I don't like to disageee with other people on here, but I have to take issue with that. It's a very, very tiny population of bacteria that grows in the substrate; way more than 90% live in the filter.

I would consider the potential risk from rotting food or fish wastes in the gravel far outweighs any potential benefits from not vacuuming it.

 

[Randi]

@ fluttermouth, upon further consideration, my advice was based on things I did with an undergravel filter. With a biowheel you are probably right. My bad.

 

[KittyKat]

+1, keep vacuuming gravel.

Gasping can be ammonia poisoning or low oxygen content: make sure the surface is disturbed and do overdose on Prime, as per instructions.

 

[golfzzin]

I was in the same situation as you about 6, 7 months ago. Don't worry about large water changes, i was doing 50 - 90% daily, sometimes twice for quite a few weeks. Iv got almost all the fish i had when i first started thanks to that, without it i think i'd have none. Although if i was there again i would fishless cycle for sure

 

[librarygirl]

Wow thanks for all the advice!

So I'll continue with the water changes daily, maybe even more than a 1 gallon change each time. I'll test levels each day as well.

What about oxygen test kits? Anyone have experience with them? Would it be worth it to get a test kit and use it? Or would the water changes be enough?

I do usually vacuum the gravel (usually only the surface, but the past couple of times I did go below the surface and did move things around some which caused some other stuff to swirl around the water so I'm wondering if that's what affected the water quality as well even though the ammonia readings themselves didn't change).

Also what about an aerating decoration or disk (http/www.amazon.com/Deluxe-Bubble-Aerating-Aquarium-Ornament/dp/B00025651G/ref=pd_sbs_k_1)? Or is my tank too small? The filter pump is blowing out a good amount of bubbles.

I'd hate to think fish is suffering Now I'm anxious to get a large tank!

 

[Tizer]

see if you can get your filter to make the surface of the water ripple, that should help with the oxygen in the tank. Decorations are just that, they dont actually put oxygen into the water.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks, my filter does make the water ripple.

see if you can get your filter to make the surface of the water ripple, that should help with the oxygen in the tank. Decorations are just that, they dont actually put oxygen into the water.

 

[waterdrop]

I'd like to go further with the comment made by golfzzin. The most common mistake made by beginners is to think that water changes are too much of a shock to fish. This is not the case. Exposure to ammonia and/or nitrite is far, far more stressful. So it is water changing that is the better thing. It is not hard to learn to do good water changes. Always work hard at deep cleaning the gravel, even if you don't see any debris but especially if you can see debris. It's not that you have to get all the debris, it's just that the more you get the better, plus it helps you know you are doing a better water change and encourages you! The size of the water change can be right down until the fish only have a very shallow place to swim, just an inch or whatever, this is no problem because you are going to be careful with the return water. Oh, and make sure you switch off your heater (and filter if you go below the intake) before doing large water changes like this. The return water should be treated with conditioner (as KK mentioned, Prime is the best for this and I recommend you dose it at 1.5x to 2x whatever they tell you but not more than 2x the instructions. This is in case the water authority has overdosed the chlorine product.) The return water should also be temperature matched roughly (your hand is good enough for this, but move your hand back and forth several times to get it right.) If you dose the conditioner to the return water buckets then the dose quantity is per the water quantity in the bucket. If you dose the conditioner directly to your tank, which you can do, then the calculation should be per all the volume of water in your tank (ie. the 5 gallons, which still is not much of a dose for prime, even at 1.5x)

That all looks rather long when I type it out but it's simple if you read it a couple times and the most important part is that large water changes are good. When you are in a fish-in cycle you want to get in to a pattern where the percentage and frequency of your water changes keeps you in that narrow safe range between zero ppm and 0.25ppm so that the fish will stay safe. Morning and evening testing is usually needed because it can change somewhat quickly on you.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[librarygirl]

Awesome thanks so much! I actually did understand what you wrote and thanks for the encouragement. I'll do larger water changes than the 1 gallon I've been doing and I'll test twice per day and use some extra Prime. Thank you!!

I'd like to go further with the comment made by golfzzin. The most common mistake made by beginners is to think that water changes are too much of a shock to fish. This is not the case. Exposure to ammonia and/or nitrite is far, far more stressful. So it is water changing that is the better thing. It is not hard to learn to do good water changes. Always work hard at deep cleaning the gravel, even if you don't see any debris but especially if you can see debris. It's not that you have to get all the debris, it's just that the more you get the better, plus it helps you know you are doing a better water change and encourages you! The size of the water change can be right down until the fish only have a very shallow place to swim, just an inch or whatever, this is no problem because you are going to be careful with the return water. Oh, and make sure you switch off your heater (and filter if you go below the intake) before doing large water changes like this. The return water should be treated with conditioner (as KK mentioned, Prime is the best for this and I recommend you dose it at 1.5x to 2x whatever they tell you but not more than 2x the instructions. This is in case the water authority has overdosed the chlorine product.) The return water should also be temperature matched roughly (your hand is good enough for this, but move your hand back and forth several times to get it right.) If you dose the conditioner to the return water buckets then the dose quantity is per the water quantity in the bucket. If you dose the conditioner directly to your tank, which you can do, then the calculation should be per all the volume of water in your tank (ie. the 5 gallons, which still is not much of a dose for prime, even at 1.5x)

That all looks rather long when I type it out but it's simple if you read it a couple times and the most important part is that large water changes are good. When you are in a fish-in cycle you want to get in to a pattern where the percentage and frequency of your water changes keeps you in that narrow safe range between zero ppm and 0.25ppm so that the fish will stay safe. Morning and evening testing is usually needed because it can change somewhat quickly on you.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[librarygirl]

Just to update: I came home tonight and straightaway did a 50% water change and put some extra Prime in and my little fish's mouth isn't moving rapidly anymore!! Yay! I think I'm going to do a small water change every morning before work and a larger one after work and test 1-2x per day until this cycle is done. Hopefully they'll be OK.

I did go to the Petstore and looked at the aeration bubbles but they seemed confusing. I'm going to try to upgrade to a larger tank as soon as I can, maybe that'll help too.

Thanks again!

 

[CrazyAirborne]

I think youre going to do ok Librarygirl. We can see that you care and want to get it right, and thats nice to see. Keep up on the water changes and ull probably be ok. also, if you plan on doing 2 water changes daily, you could probably get away with testing ur water less (like once a day, or every other), since you'll know that you are giving them good water. save on those expensive tests!


thats what i would do at least