New Fish Owner

[jdyn90]

Hello all,

I'm from the Pacific NW (USA) and am happy to find this community. I recently got a free 10g tank from my neighbor and decided to give fishkeeping a try! My girlfriend and I are really excited about owning some fish soon. My only experience with fish so far is:

1. 20 years ago as a kid - helping my sister take care of her goldfish. I think it lived for about 6 months.
2. Recently - helping my girlfriend take care of some free koi fish she got from a coworker. Those died within a week ...

So as you can see I am not coming from the best background. I am hoping to learn a bunch and become a successful fish hobbyist!

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

The biggest killer of aquarium fish is poor water quality caused by too much food, not enough water changes, and a filter that is not established or able to keep the water clean.

You can set up the tank and do a fish in cycle whereby you have a couple of fish in the tank while the filters develop colonies of beneficial bacteria. Or you can do a fishless cycle where you add a source of ammonia to the tank and let the filters develop. No fish are in the tank during a fishless cycle and both types of filter cycling takes about 4-6 weeks.

A fishless cycle is better for the fish but it means you have a tank with no fish for a month or more. A fish in cycle can be done safely if you keep feeding down to 2 times per week and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate 4-8 hours after feeding. You also need to monitor the water for ammonia and nitrite and do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0.

The following links have info on cycling an aquarium, and what to do if your fish gets sick.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first.421488/

http://www.fishforums.net/threads/what-to-do-if-your-fish-gets-sick.450268/#post-3804819

If you get a basic model gravel cleaner like the one in the following link, it will allow you to drain water from the tank and clean the gunk out of the gravel at the same time. Get a couple of new buckets and use a permanent marker to write "FISH ONLY" on them. Use the buckets for the fish and nothing else.
https://www.about-goldfish.com/aquarium-cleaning.html

Contact your local water supply company (via website or telephone) and ask them what the general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness (KH) and pH of the water is. Post the results here. Post the tank dimensions here too and any pictures of the filter and equipment you have for the tank.

Visit the local pet shop and make a list of fish and plants you like and post that here. We can go through it and make suggestions that will work in the tank with your water.

 

[jdyn90]

Yep I am currently 3 weeks into fishless cycling my 10 gallon tank. I just left a message at my city's utility company regarding the GH and KH and they should get back to me soon about it. I have read that the Pacific NW has very soft water. My cycle has been slowing down lately so I suspect it has something to do with it.

Here's my tank dimensions:

• Length - 20 inches
• Width - 10 Inches
• Height - 12 Inches

And equipment:

• Heater: Aqueon Submersible 50W
• Filter: Aquaclear 30

I've attached a picture of when I first set up the tank. It hasn't changed really since then, but I have added a narrow leaf java fern in the back corner.

My girlfriend and I so far like platies, corydoras, and black skirt tetras. We were thinking 2 of each. Is this achievable? As for plants I really like the vallisneria but the shops around here don't carry them. So for now I just have the java fern and am fairly open to any plant that looks nice!

 

[Byron]

I have read that the Pacific NW has very soft water. My cycle has been slowing down lately so I suspect it has something to do with it.

Yes, if you are in Washington or Oregon, and west of the Rockies (not sure east) you have very soft water. SW BC above you (where I live) is the same. Soft water species will thrive here. But no species that requires moderately hard or harder water will manage (without water adjustment, possible but I'll leave that for the moment). And that includes all livebearers--platy, molly, guppy, Endler and swordtail.

My girlfriend and I so far like platies, corydoras, and black skirt tetras. We were thinking 2 of each. Is this achievable?

First thing is tank size, second is the shoaling habit of cories and tetras, third the water is unsuited to platy. Shoaling means the fish live in fairly large groups, and in an aquarium they must have a smallish group with numbers depending upon the species and tank size. Cories do best with no fewer than five, but more will always be better for the fish's well being. Tetras generally need six but again more will mean healthier fish. Shoaling applies to all characins (tetras, hatchetfish and pencilfish), cory catfish, loaches, rasbora, barbs and danios. I've just mentioned the basic groups (restricted to soft water) for your information as you look at options.

Tank size is crucial here, as a 10 gallon is quite a small space. You are primarily restricted to "nano" fish, a term used in the hobby to cover fish that attain a mature size that is basically under an inch. Larger fish, such as the Black Tetras, reach up to 2 inches, some more, and need a group of say 7 or 8, and that means at minimum a 20g tank but even that is crowding them. Swimming activity (some species are active swimmers, others much more sedate) also factors in with tank size (length and width especially) and volume of water.

As for plants I really like the vallisneria but the shops around here don't carry them. So for now I just have the java fern and am fairly open to any plant that looks nice!

Vallisneria is a plant that does best in harder water than we have. Here again, like the fish, you can adjust the water, but this gets into some complex chemistry, or expensive additives, and as you are new to the hobby my advice is to select fish and plants suited more to your water. Most plants are not anywhere as fussy as fish when it comes to the water parameters, but Vallisneria can be. The pygmy chain sword plants will do much better, and are similar with their long leaves. The tank lighting needs to be gone into for plants. Java Fern is low light requiring so this tends to do quite well, but some plants can be much fussier. Knowing the lighting over the tank will help going forward. I will also mention that floating plants are advisable; most of our fish are forest fish that do not appreciate bright overhead lighting, and floating plants will provide welcome shade and bring out the best colouration in fish as they are more relaxed and their colours can be quite sparkling under such conditions.

 

[jdyn90]

Cool - I like the pygmy swords a lot. I'll keep an eye out for them. It seems there is some additional research I need to do on fish! Thanks for the great info.

 

[Colin_T]

I assume the tank has been filled up a bit more since the picture was taken?
HOB (hang on back) style filters like the Aquaclear 30 need the water level in the aquarium to be higher than the motor on the filter. If the tank water level is too low and there is a power failure, the filter will drain completely and won't restart when the power comes back on.

re: the Aquaclear, they usually come with a sponge, bag of carbon (black granules in a mesh bag) and some ceramic beads. I normally leave the beads and carbon in the box and just add 3 sponges. You buy the sponges separately. You can use the ceramic beads if you like but the carbon is not necessary unless you have chemicals or heavy metals in the water supply.

After the tank has cycled, add some fish and wait a couple more weeks before cleaning the filter. When it come to cleaning the filter, turn the filter off at the power point and unplug it. Get a bucket of water from the tank and rinse the ceramic beads in the bucket of tank water. When it is clean put the beads in the aquarium. Then squeeze the sponge out in the bucket of tank water. When it is clean, get a second bucket of tank water and squeeze it out in that. Then put the sponge in the tank. The carbon normally gets thrown away each month and is not necessary so get another sponge and swap it over.

After you have cleaned the sponge/s and ceramic beads, remove the filter from the tank and tip the water out onto the garden. Take the intake tubes off and wash them under tap water and rinse the filter case under tap water. Turn the motor and gently pull it down away from the filter case. Take the impellor out of the motor and wash it and the motor under tap water. The Aquaclear motors are sealed in a plastic resin and covered in a plastic case so it is safe to rinse them under tap water.

After you have cleaned the motor, put the impellor back in the motor and smear a thin layer of Vaseline on the O-ring on the top of the motor. Reassemble the motor and case and put the filter back on the tank. Put the intake tubes back on. Put the filter media in the filter and fill the filter case with tank water. Make sure the plug is dry and plug the filter in and turn it on. The filter will suck the tank water in and blow a few bubbles through the filter media before it gets going properly but it should be running normally within about 20 seconds.

Power Filters like the Aquaclear 30 should be cleaned at least once a month and every 2 weeks is better. If well maintained these filters can last for 20 years or more.

The other thing you can do with this filter is put a cylindrical sponge on the intake strainer. You get these sponges from pet shops and they are normally used in internal power filters. They add extra filtration to the tank and stop fish getting drawn onto the intake strainer, which can happen if the fish is unwell.

----------------------------
Is there any chance you can return the tank and get one that is slightly bigger?
The tank doesn't have fish in yet and if you get a longer tank it would give you more options for the fish.

If you drain the tank and keep the water in a bucket, and put the filter materials in the bucket of water, carefully remove the gravel, rinse and dry the tank, you might be able to swap it for a bigger tank (and pay the difference in price). But a longer tank would give you much more choice in what you can keep. Don't tell the pet shop it was set up.

 

[jdyn90]

Oh, good to know! The filter has been running with the sponge, carbon, and beads for 3 weeks. Should I keep the carbon there, or toss it and get it over with? I probably don't need it from the sounds of it.

So I actually got this tank for free from a neighbor who was moving out and couldn't take the tank with them. For now, I'd rather use the tank I have and see what I can do with it. However I definitely want to look into larger tanks in the future.

Upon researching, I'm finding some conflicting information on what can and cannot be kept in a 10 gallon. I take it that ideally fish need a bigger tank, but what is the potential harm with putting them in this one? I'm mostly asking out of curiosity so don't hate me! Is this a less-than-ideal sort of thing, or would I actually be torturing these fish?

 

[Colin_T]

If the tank was free you can't exchange it for a bigger one but it was a good score, especially if it came with the filter

Leave the carbon where it is until you clean it, then get a replacement sponge and swap it over.

The main problem with small tanks is water quality and aggression. The less water the faster it deteriorates (gets dirty) and the more chance of water chemistry fluctuations. This can be countered to some degree by doing big regular water changes but problems can still occur.

Regarding water changes, I normally recommend doing a 75% water change and gravel cleaning the substrate once a week. If you have lots of fish in the tank, you do the 75% water change and gravel clean several times a week or even every day. However, if you have to do it every day just to keep the water clean, then the tank is over stocked and there will be issues with diseases further down the track.

In relation to aggression, most fish naturally occur in large volumes of water and each fish has its own space. With small schooling fishes like neon tetras, they naturally occur in large groups consisting of thousands of individuals. But even in these large groups each fish has its own space and if other fish come into that space too often, it can stress the fish and stress can lead to bickering, arguments, bullying, fin nipping and fighting. Even tho neons are not aggressive as such, they still get stressed if there is not enough room for everyone.

It's a bit like standing in line waiting to be served at the department of motor vehicles. You have your personal space and if someone behind you is too close to you, you feel a bit uncomfortable. Whilst at the DMV you might be near these other people for an hour or two, but after that you can get away from them. This is not possible in a small aquarium with lots of fish. Imagine being in line at the DMV for days with the same people in front of you and behind you. You would probably freak out. The same thing happens to fish (and other animals) when they feel confined or trapped in a small environment.

---------------------------
In a small tank you try to keep a group of small peaceful schooling fishes so they don't mind being near each other. But you have to make sure there is sufficient room for them to move about. Alternatively you keep a pair of small peaceful fish like Honey gouramis and they will set up home and possibly even breed. The final option is a single fish like a male Siamese fighting fish (Betta splendens), or a male Betta and some khuli loaches that live on the bottom. However, the black gravel in the tank is not the best for bottom dwelling fishes like loaches.

I use to have tanks that were 18 & 24 inches long x 10 inches wide x 12 inches high (similar size to your tank) and I kept killifish (Epiplaty and Aphyosemium species) in them. I also kept pencilfish (Nannostomus species) and some of the smaller cichlids (Apistogramma & Nannochromis species).

I only kept 1 species per tank and the fish lived and bred in these tanks. The baby fish were removed and grown up in rearing containers. However, you could keep a group of 6-10 killifish or pencilfish or a pr of dwarf cichlids in the tank.

 

[Byron]

Upon researching, I'm finding some conflicting information on what can and cannot be kept in a 10 gallon. I take it that ideally fish need a bigger tank, but what is the potential harm with putting them in this one? I'm mostly asking out of curiosity so don't hate me! Is this a less-than-ideal sort of thing, or would I actually be torturing these fish?

Colin explained this nicely with some good "human" parallels. I will just pick up on the issue of harm to fish from tanks that are too small.

Fish grow continually, and to develop properly, in good health, etc, they need a specific environment. That means the water parameters, numbers, aquascape, water volume, and other species. All of this factors in to the healthy development as the fish matures. When any of these necessities are lacking or inaccurate for the species, it has trouble growing. In severe cases it can lead to stunting which is when the internal organ development is compromised. But all along the way, stress is also a factor. Any abnormality in what the fish "expects" will cause stress at the least, and may go much further. And stress is the direct factor for 95% of all fish disease because it weakens the fish so much they can no longer deal with parasites, bacteria, or whatever.

 

[jdyn90]

I see. So by keeping the fish in a tank too small they are much more prone to disease and a shorter lifespan. We will look at some nano fish and see if there's any that we like. We haven't considered much beyond what we commonly see at the pet stores. It's so much easier to find fish we like when we can see them in person!

For alternatives, I like the idea of having some loner fish rather than a small school of them. I know betta fish are definite loners, are there any other good ones? Dwarf gourami's seem like a potential fit.

And I will get back to you on my light specs. I got a LED light/hood with the tank which I'm not really using yet. Oh and to answer an earlier question yes my tank is fuller than it was in the pic

 

[Byron]

I see. So by keeping the fish in a tank too small they are much more prone to disease and a shorter lifespan. We will look at some nano fish and see if there's any that we like. We haven't considered much beyond what we commonly see at the pet stores. It's so much easier to find fish we like when we can see them in person!

For alternatives, I like the idea of having some loner fish rather than a small school of them. I know betta fish are definite loners, are there any other good ones? Dwarf gourami's seem like a potential fit.

And I will get back to you on my light specs. I got a LED light/hood with the tank which I'm not really using yet. Oh and to answer an earlier question yes my tank is fuller than it was in the pic

I don't know where you live in the PNW, but The Wet Spot tropical fish store in Portland, Oregon has an outstanding reputation. They have a site here:
http://www.wetspottropicalfish.com/

I know their reputation for an excellent selection of fish, but I know nothing of their reliability as far as advice if one asks about this or that. Always do your research before acquiring any fish. Get the name, scientific preferably (good stores will let you see the invoices which usually have the scientific names), and research through Seriously Fish or ask on this forum.

Single fish in a 10g is not easy. For one thing, it visually looks wrong, to see a fish in that small a space. I have a 10g among the 8 or so tanks in my fish room, and it is stocked with pygmy cories only, because they regularly spawn and can survive without egg predators in the tank. A male Betta (alone) is one option as you mention. To be honest I cannot think of anything else I would subject to a 10g, except nano fish in groups. Ember Tetra, Dwarf Rasbora (the species in Boraras), pygmy cories, sparkling gourami (these are small fish)--these come to mind with soft water.

Dwarf Gourami really needs a larger tank, but a lone fish could work; another thread mentions this. You have to be careful where you get the DG though; only from a reputable breeder. Fish from SE Asia may carry the iridovirus which is untreatable, or TB (according to Colin and I do not doubt it). The latter (also non-treatable) can be passed to humans from fish. Honey Gourami is better for this, but reliable sites say a 24-inch tank minimum.

 

[jdyn90]

I live in Seattle, WA. Indeed there's a few pet stores around my area that are not petsmart/petco. I should be able to visit a few this weekend. I hope they have some of the fish you mention! I really can't decide on things unless I see them in person

 

[Colin_T]

Pet shops get supply lists of fish that they can buy but most shops only carry the more common fish and fish that sell. If you want unusual fish (dwarf rasboras, killifish, etc) you usually have to order them in.

If you go to a library you can check out aquarium fish books there and see if there are any fish that interest you. Pet shops also sell books but even if you don't want to buy one, you could ask the shop if they have a copy of the "Dr Axelrod's Atlas of Freshwater Aquarium Fishes" or a copy of "Baensch's Aquarium Atlas (freshwater fish)" to look through. These books have most of the known freshwater fishes in them with full colour photographs. You could have a look through them and see if there is any fish you like, then order those fish in.

You could keep a group of 6-10 Iriatherina werneri or Pseudomugil gertrudae in the tank. These are small fish found in northern Australia and New guinea and occur in soft water. There is more info on them at the following links.
http://rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au/Melano.htm

http://rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au/Werneri.htm

http://rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au/Gertrud.htm

 

[jdyn90]

Thanks we will look at different types of fish. Are there any general guidelines we should look out for when picking fish suitable for our 10g? Under an inch, can handle soft water, etc.

Those fish you linked are very cool. I have never seen them before! I guess I have never thought about ordering fish in. That's an idea we'll definitely consider.

 

[Byron]

Thanks we will look at different types of fish. Are there any general guidelines we should look out for when picking fish suitable for our 10g? Under an inch, can handle soft water, etc.

Those fish you linked are very cool. I have never seen them before! I guess I have never thought about ordering fish in. That's an idea we'll definitely consider.

They must be small, and "nano" fish are generally less than an inch in mature length. You might have some 1-inch, thinking of substrate fish like pygmy cories. But most of the upper fish will be less, say 1/2 to 3/4 inch. I mentioned some species earlier (post #11) and Colin had more (post #13). For the fish I mentioned, you can find reliable data on Seriously Fish:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/knowledge-base/
or ask here.

Second, must be soft or very soft water. Generally, this means most fish from South America and SE Asia will work, and the species I mentioned previously are from one of these two areas. There is also Central Africa (not the east African rift lakes) but available fish from this area especially small is not a lot, though some of the killifish might work. Then the soft water rainbow fish Colin mentioned.

Third, you want quiet fish, not active swimmers, though with very small (1/2 inch) swimmers it would likely work. This is not going to cause you trouble though, as most of these fish will be quiet.

Now, getting to some larger fish, there are a few. The Rocket Pencilfish (Nannostomus eques) comes to mind; I have a group of 12 in my 40g flooded forest blackwater Amazonian tank, but they very rarely venture outside about one square foot, as they spend their days among floating plant roots and leaves, looking for microscopic food. They are of interest for their oblique swimming angle (permanent), and they remain close to if not at the surface, so this can provide some interest in that area of the tank which can bee difficult to do. Most of these fish are mid to lower-level species, away from the "threat" of the surface, which is another reason why floating plants are so advisable for almost any forest fish tank.

The Wet Spot in Portland can get just about any fish that is available, they deal with exporters. You might look over that list linked on their site, or call them, or drive down some time. But keep in mind many if not all of these fish will be seasonal because they will be wild caught in most cases, and some countries do have sensible collection laws.