"Natural Substrate" (Diy Mix): Have You Tried One?

[jarthel]

I came across this page (http/www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/Aqu ... s.2FGravel) and it has several recipes of DIY mix natural substrate.

If you have done something similar, is it worth it? how did you prepare the ingredients? where do I get the ingredients? things like topsoil/peat seems like available would be available in garden supplies shops. but I'm not so sure about the other stuff.

Thank you

 

[theshadowinc]

Yes I have done something simular check out my 55 planted link, I used 3 layers and was all baught from a green house basically and worked very well, only issue I ran into was my hardscape got algue and now I turned the co2 up and disappering slowly none the less and have gotten rid of alot of stem plants as they grew just way to fast in a week I had to do a major prune job I mean hack half the tank as you will see from the pics. Mainly I stick to crypts and slower growing plants as I still have wisteria and fanwart and trying to get ricca to take to my bog wood is frustrating none the less

 

[Nick16]

you could try baked clay, and soak it in some TPN+ or make up some EI ferts.
something like DRL Akadama is good stuff.
The thing with using peat etc, is you get anerobic pockets of gas build up as the substrate is basically mud. These gasses can be very harmful to fish.

If you try akadama, get a good base of NPK under it and dose the water coloumn well and you will be fine. Thats what im going to do with my EC. Its a much cheaper alternative than using something like ada Aquasoil. (especially when im using over 100Kgs)

alternatively, try something cheap like jbl aquabasis, a good 5L bag can be sourced for under a tenner.

 

[theshadowinc]

The thing with using peat etc, is you get anerobic pockets of gas build up as the substrate is basically mud. These gasses can be very harmful to fish.

In order for hydrogen sulfide, H2S, the rotten egg smell to occur, you MUST have a source of carbon(rotting bulbs, dead roots/fish etc). I have gravel that's 12" deep, no issues.
If you have plants, the roots bring O2 to the substrate and prevent this reduction of Sulfur. This is one reason why soil based planted tanks work but you should always add as many plants from the start for this reason also (and no matter what type of planted tank you have).

this was stated by tom barr and he has more layers than I do, yes its true if you allow it to happen, but in true planted tank there shouldn't be a reason to have this issue arise unless all your plants die, my tank is hevily planted and me doing massive prunning jobs once a week, this way I can atleast see in. I have never ran into this issue yet, and hope i never due and I do gravel vac my sand since I figured out how to , thats why I use a mix simular but add more vermaculite than I do the peat

 

[Nick16]

i totally agree there, but surely for a newbie, going with a simple 1 layer substrate is the best way to go. After all its a learning curve, first you need to understand how a planted tank works and seperate myths from truths. (there are many many myths) (this will include, hardware, the triangle (light ferts co2) and even some plant names.
secondly, you need to learn how to grow the plants, so they are healthy, happy and spreading.

thats is the best way to go before you delve into the more complicated methods that other scapers like theshadowinc and myself use.
i have seen so many cases of anerobic pockets killing fish and especiialy inverts as newbies often suffer with dying plants etc.

but shadow is totally right here, tom barr has had many succeses here and to a degree so has diana walstad.

 

[theshadowinc]

i totally agree there, but surely for a newbie, going with a simple 1 layer substrate is the best way to go. After all its a learning curve, first you need to understand how a planted tank works and seperate myths from truths. (there are many many myths) (this will include, hardware, the triangle (light ferts co2) and even some plant names.
secondly, you need to learn how to grow the plants, so they are healthy, happy and spreading.

I won't say yes and I won't say no to this one I think the more important part is knowledge. If you don't have the knowledge then why bother! I know when I decided to do things right the first time I asked advice from someone popular and picked alot of brains. I got my help from supercoley1 and spent hours and hours of talking with him on flow, co2 type, substrate, lighting, EI dosing, fish, products and reviews etc. Guess what for the 2 weeks or what ever it was I went with out it was well worth it now

[/quote]thats is the best way to go before you delve into the more complicated methods that other scapers like theshadowinc and myself use.
i have seen so many cases of anerobic pockets killing fish and especiialy inverts as newbies often suffer with dying plants etc. [/quote]
I have read about it many times as well. Most are a failure from the start because of what they use. I don't think I would recommend baked clay, I would try and find something thats not baked for the reason baked exhausts and thats the end of the substrate although it takes time for this to happen usually 1 year in the beggining. If you go with something thats not baked, it exhausts then reasorbs(Meaning watching plant growth you might have to dose heavier and this is where experience comes into play) it does this over and and over again so means its a substrate that will last alot longer. But I agree with you before diving into this weather a begginer or expert research is needed remember you are putting in alot of money. My 55gal setup after everything said and done is about 750$, after plants and not done with plants and fish I am over the 1,000$ mark and this tank was made on a budget. This also doesn't include refills of co2.

but shadow is totally right here, tom barr has had many succeses here and to a degree so has diana walstad.

Thats because not alot of scapers go that route, they usually stick to lfs products. Really its not much cheaper in the end maybe doing a huge substrate you will save $20 if you are lucky. But the thing is you get so much product for what you spend. Myself don't have experience with all the lfs products that people use I jumped right into a DIY substrate.

Another quote from tom bar regarding the gas
Mulm is basically well processed organic matter by the time it makes it's way down there. Fish waste etc turns into plant food essentially.
This works well because the rate at which this waste is added to the gravel, is absorbed by the plants and the leftovers are remineralized by the bacteria.
The issue becomes a problem when you add too much waste, too fast.
Then you get the reduction like you find in swamps which have high loading rates and nothing to break it down(anaerobic processes are MUCH slower than aerobic upland soils), then it becomes peat, add a few million years, then you have coal and oil, add a few more million years, then you have diamonds.............
Even that wedding ring is all from aquatic plants
But you don't add much rich organic material to substrates really from mulm accumulation and it's mostly broken down and loaded with bacteria feeding on it.
High O2 levels from the plants help drive the aerobic processes to break the organic matter down and reminerilize it into plant food again.
These bacteria give off CO2 and need O2, so the plant gets some CO2 out of the deal also and the bacteria get the O2 from the plant roots.
Once this layer of bacteria gets well established, the tank matures well and modulates the CO2 level better.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Don't know much about Diana at all will have to look her up

But you are right saying not alot have had success and thats probably from a misunderstanding in what to use and how deep and what maintence is required ie. needs to be planted heavy from the beggining and maintened for healthy growth

I have to run talk with yous later

theshadowinc