Is there a way past the sticking if it occurs or is it just a case of perseverance until it sorts itself out? The nitrite this morning was so low I was tempted to give it a 0.0 but there was just the faintest of pink tinge to the sample.
Jmac's New Fishless Cycle Log
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waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
The way I would describe it is that current best practice is to simply persevere, keep fishless cycling and watching for those double-zeros at 12 hours which allow you to start your qualification week. Different filters will take different amounts of time to get through the sticking problem of the third stage and reach double-zeros.
However, the "chatter" that you see from the likes of me and OM47 and others is just us constantly speculating about whether little changes in practice might stumble upon a speed or quality improvement here or there. OM47 recently found some more confirmation in the scientific literature about some of our bacteria not liking the presence of nitrate, giving further confirmation to something we'd already heard from Hovanec. Any time we get some new insight or further confirmation of some part of the fishless cycling process it helps us feel more confident about the process or that we're moving forward with it. I mean, who knows(?), a large gravel-clean-water-change-and-filter-clean every weekend throughout the entire fishless cycle might speed it up (just as a wild speculative example of the kinds of things we think about) - its not something any of us has tried! (and of course it might slow it down
)
~~waterdrop~~
However, the "chatter" that you see from the likes of me and OM47 and others is just us constantly speculating about whether little changes in practice might stumble upon a speed or quality improvement here or there. OM47 recently found some more confirmation in the scientific literature about some of our bacteria not liking the presence of nitrate, giving further confirmation to something we'd already heard from Hovanec. Any time we get some new insight or further confirmation of some part of the fishless cycling process it helps us feel more confident about the process or that we're moving forward with it. I mean, who knows(?), a large gravel-clean-water-change-and-filter-clean every weekend throughout the entire fishless cycle might speed it up (just as a wild speculative example of the kinds of things we think about) - its not something any of us has tried! (and of course it might slow it down
)~~waterdrop~~
LondonguyJ
Fish Crazy
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It feels like I've been looking into test tubes for ever so when I first hit double 0 in twelve hours I might do a little dance
The fun part
I don't know, this cycling has been quite interesting, like a home science project. I'm going to start setting up my next tank in a couple of weeks so I get to start again but at least I'll have some media to kick start the new tank.
I'm starting it early though just in case since this ones taken me two months!
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Yes, looked at your log this morning again and was immediately struck by two things: First, your reporting format was great, I was easily able to gather the info I wanted with a quick scan of my eye (the day number was the first item, the temp and pH were there - all these are helpful things in my book.) Secondly, I was also disappointed that the heater was not there from day one, I wish I'd been there to notice and recommend (I didn't look back through the log to see if there was any discussiion early on but your cycle has been all during the period when I've been going crazy at work and not been able to participate in the beginners section or forum much at all, so I probably never noticed that oversight. Your log seems to confirm my feeling that the N-Bacs in particular need the heat to develop faster. They would obviously develop eventually (since the same two species work fine in coldwater tanks) but if we want to cycle the biofilter from scratch in 3 months or less I think we need heat!)The fun part
I don't know, this cycling has been quite interesting, like a home science project. I'm going to start setting up my next tank in a couple of weeks so I get to start again but at least I'll have some media to kick start the new tank.
I'm starting it early though just in case since this ones taken me two months!
Anyways, congrats, I'm sure you're happy to have your two big black fish!
~~waterdrop~~
No worries WD, I got there in the end.
I think you did point out about the heater earlier on in the thread and it was definately the kick start that I think it needed. Until I introduced the heater I was stuck at about 2.4 with the ammonia but the heater rapidly increased the processing. I took it out before doing the water change this morning and had left the water prepared in buckets over night so as to reach ambient temp.
When I come to start the larger tank the fish are moving in to (about 2-3 weeks) its definately going to start with the heater in (and some of my own old media).
I think you did point out about the heater earlier on in the thread and it was definately the kick start that I think it needed. Until I introduced the heater I was stuck at about 2.4 with the ammonia but the heater rapidly increased the processing. I took it out before doing the water change this morning and had left the water prepared in buckets over night so as to reach ambient temp.
When I come to start the larger tank the fish are moving in to (about 2-3 weeks) its definately going to start with the heater in (and some of my own old media).
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
I would guess that if you start fishless cycling a bigger tank in 3 weeks or less that your current media will not be that mature (despite us reaching a point we call "cycled" and putting in fish, the bacterial colony maturation process going on is very, very significant up through 6 months and then I'd say the change process begins to taper off toward the year mark, leaving us with something even better. I myself have probably user the term "mature filter" for filters at both 6 months and at one year and I sort of think of it as ok to do so, but they are still different. Mature and more mature, lol.)
So anyway, to get to the point, I would maybe back off of the 1/3 rule if you take media from something that's only just recently finished fishless cycling. It won't be very mature at less than 6 months. BUT, taking maybe 1/4 of it should probably be ok and should serve as a good "seed" (a "seed" I think of as not as good as an MM stuffing, but better than nothing and usually a great speeder upper of the early stages of a fishless cycle.) Try to place the seed-MM directly before the new biomedia in the water path inside the filter (or intermingle it.)
~~waterdrop~~
So anyway, to get to the point, I would maybe back off of the 1/3 rule if you take media from something that's only just recently finished fishless cycling. It won't be very mature at less than 6 months. BUT, taking maybe 1/4 of it should probably be ok and should serve as a good "seed" (a "seed" I think of as not as good as an MM stuffing, but better than nothing and usually a great speeder upper of the early stages of a fishless cycle.) Try to place the seed-MM directly before the new biomedia in the water path inside the filter (or intermingle it.)
~~waterdrop~~
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