Give it to me straight doc!
I don't think my Anubias is going to make it.
The risks of ordering plants by mail in winter.
I don't think my Anubias is going to make it.
The risks of ordering plants by mail in winter.
I don't think my Anubias is going to make it.
- Thread starter sharkweek178
- Start date
CaptainBarnicles
Moderate Pleco Tolerator
Staff member
Global Moderator ⚒️
Tank of the Month 🏆
Pet of the Month 🎖️
Rhizome looks OK...see what it does
OP
OP
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I might hang onto it for that reason. I have another one on order though. It's going to be warmer out.
OP
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The snails seem to be enjoying it so I'll see what's leftover after they're done.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
There are 3 tricks for ordering fish in cold weather. The first is to pay the sender to insulate and use a heat pack. The other is to buy both fish and plants in the same order. Then the plants are in the same heated box as the fish.
I always say that one live healthy fish has to be worth 3 DOAS. The same applies to plants
I always say that one live healthy fish has to be worth 3 DOAS. The same applies to plants
OP
OP
I never order fish by mail in winter. Just don't want to risk it.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
I live in New York. I ship fish. Many years ago I sent a box of LF bristlenose plecos to a buyer in Alaska in April. Back then I used the USPS to ship. For some reason the box I sent out on Monday afternoon did not arrive in Alaska until Friday morning. All the fish were alive.
I have no problem shipping fish in freezing weather. that is what 1 inch styro and several heat packs are for. However, I will not ship after thanksgiving until the middle of the following January. This has nothing to do with the weather, it has to do with the volume of shipping related to X-mas. Boxes get bumped all the time and the shipping companies do not care what might be in a box chosen for delay.
What I have refrained from doing is shipping in summer when it is extremely hot. his requires cold packs. I do fine with heating during cold but am to unsure of things when it is the reverse. Most of the fish I ship are from warm water. I keep them in the low- mid 80sF. In shipping my goal is to insure the coldest the water gets is about 76F. I know how many and what size hear packs to use. I have no c.lue about using cold packs in summer.
Also, I know that if one has fish at a temperature, high or low, which will soon be fatal, the way to save the fish is to get it into the right temperature range ASAP. If one bothers to try and acclimate them slowly, they will mostly die. I have first hand experience that confirms this. I learbed do this because a few years backwhen I was looking for research papers on acclimating fish. Everything I found dealt with temperature studies for determining the specific lethal temps for specific species.
Most of the papers wanted to find the fatal point which meant that the fish died. But, another part of the research was to learn how the fish behaved as they approached the fatal temp. One group of scientist decided they wanted to know if, when the fish exhibited that behavior, could they then be saved. What they learned was yes they can, and the way to do it was to get them into the right temperature water as fast as possible.
I do not acclimate new fish. When they arrive the bag is opened and the fish go into the Q tank directly (but not the bag water). If there are several bags of the same species I will dump the fish and bag water into a bucket. From there I net them and plop them into the tank. I want fish out of bag water as fast as possible.
I have no problem shipping fish in freezing weather. that is what 1 inch styro and several heat packs are for. However, I will not ship after thanksgiving until the middle of the following January. This has nothing to do with the weather, it has to do with the volume of shipping related to X-mas. Boxes get bumped all the time and the shipping companies do not care what might be in a box chosen for delay.
What I have refrained from doing is shipping in summer when it is extremely hot. his requires cold packs. I do fine with heating during cold but am to unsure of things when it is the reverse. Most of the fish I ship are from warm water. I keep them in the low- mid 80sF. In shipping my goal is to insure the coldest the water gets is about 76F. I know how many and what size hear packs to use. I have no c.lue about using cold packs in summer.
Also, I know that if one has fish at a temperature, high or low, which will soon be fatal, the way to save the fish is to get it into the right temperature range ASAP. If one bothers to try and acclimate them slowly, they will mostly die. I have first hand experience that confirms this. I learbed do this because a few years backwhen I was looking for research papers on acclimating fish. Everything I found dealt with temperature studies for determining the specific lethal temps for specific species.
Most of the papers wanted to find the fatal point which meant that the fish died. But, another part of the research was to learn how the fish behaved as they approached the fatal temp. One group of scientist decided they wanted to know if, when the fish exhibited that behavior, could they then be saved. What they learned was yes they can, and the way to do it was to get them into the right temperature water as fast as possible.
I do not acclimate new fish. When they arrive the bag is opened and the fish go into the Q tank directly (but not the bag water). If there are several bags of the same species I will dump the fish and bag water into a bucket. From there I net them and plop them into the tank. I want fish out of bag water as fast as possible.
As someone who has shipped over 6000 packages containing live plants, I would say USPS is one of the most unreliable delivery services.
It is not uncommon for a package that was supposed to go to California from New jersey to end up in Hawaii for a few days before coming back to the mainland and getting to its destination late.
In the last month, at least 6 packages have been marked delivered, but the customers say they never got it. As should be expected, I cannot be held responsible for USPS's mistakes, which can sometimes result in unhappy customers.
It is not uncommon for a package that was supposed to go to California from New jersey to end up in Hawaii for a few days before coming back to the mainland and getting to its destination late.
In the last month, at least 6 packages have been marked delivered, but the customers say they never got it. As should be expected, I cannot be held responsible for USPS's mistakes, which can sometimes result in unhappy customers.
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I'm the same for fish. Especially corydoras. With them I'm concerned about self poisoning. So I plop and drop. I pour the bag into a plastic collander and the fish go right into the tank. I think that getting them into a proper environment that they can start getting settled into is more important than leaving them in a stressful bag.
OP
OP
And that's a big problem too. Those heat packs only last for so long. Same with the insulated packaging. I kind of tell myself that I'm taking a chance when I order in winter and that it's not really the merchant's fault. Only time I hold them responsible is if they don't include the heat pack or the insulated packaging isn't sealed properly.
I've had heat packs advertised to last 72 hours end up lasting up to 5 days. Some never end up heating up at all.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Before anything else- the fastest safest and cheapest way to ship fish is airport to airport. But this was made to onerous for small people like me and I stopped doing it. I used to get fish sent from CA in NY in under 12 hours. But I had to drive 45 minutes each way at night to get them.
As I wrote above, I always wait until I confirm a heat pack has begunt to heat before I will use it. That seem to me to just be using common sense? But then what makes the common person uncommon is common sense.
Here is a trick to know about using heat packs. The shorter term ones- think 20 or 30 hours tend to heat fast to their peak output which then declines from there. On the other hand, the longer terms ones, starting with 40 hours, and especially the 60 and 72 hour ones take longer to reach their peak output but once they do so, they maintain if for longer.
So, most boxes I send with live fish which need heat will get a combination of various length packs. And if it is a bigger box, they may get multiples of each size. How much heat I might add depends on the fish and the distance from me they will be travelling. I always open the pack and confirm they are warming before I they go into the box.
I have not uses the USPS in a whilee. But when one ships Express mail it is usually carried by FedEx which has a contract with the USPS to fly most of their Express mail. I almost lost a box of 20 zebra plecos shipped Express. They were going to Texas and were routed through Chicago. While there, a barrel of something toxic fell off of a fork lift and smashed opened. Nothing left the FedEx faciltiy for a day. So my box took over 48 hours instead of under 24.
Once the box was located and again on its way, I instructed the buyer not to acclimate the fish when they arrived but immediately to put them into the right tamp. There were 3 bags of 6/7/7 fish. When they arrived the buyer checked the temps. 2 bags were 60 and the other 59F. This is enough to be killing the fish which come from very warm waters.
Two fish were DOA and a third fish died overnight. I offered the buyer a choice of replacement of refund. He chose refund and I immediately sent his money. Had I not instructed him as I did, I firmly believe trying to acclimate the fish gradually into the proper temp. would have resulted in most or all of them dying.
Btw, this is why shipped fish are not as cheap as they might be. Neither FedEX, UPS nor USPS will insure live content. Even if they cause the death of the fish, the best we can expect is that the shipping cost might be refunded if not delivered as promised. That box of 20 zebras sold for about $3,750. I bought them to resell in order to be able to buy things more expensive at the same time which were much harder to find. So, when those 3/20 zebras died, I lost not only he profit from them but also the price I had paid for them.
I can tell you that the fish that are most likely to arrive alive and healthy are not the inexpensive ones, rather they are the ones which are on the more pricey side.
As I wrote above, I always wait until I confirm a heat pack has begunt to heat before I will use it. That seem to me to just be using common sense? But then what makes the common person uncommon is common sense.
Here is a trick to know about using heat packs. The shorter term ones- think 20 or 30 hours tend to heat fast to their peak output which then declines from there. On the other hand, the longer terms ones, starting with 40 hours, and especially the 60 and 72 hour ones take longer to reach their peak output but once they do so, they maintain if for longer.
So, most boxes I send with live fish which need heat will get a combination of various length packs. And if it is a bigger box, they may get multiples of each size. How much heat I might add depends on the fish and the distance from me they will be travelling. I always open the pack and confirm they are warming before I they go into the box.
I have not uses the USPS in a whilee. But when one ships Express mail it is usually carried by FedEx which has a contract with the USPS to fly most of their Express mail. I almost lost a box of 20 zebra plecos shipped Express. They were going to Texas and were routed through Chicago. While there, a barrel of something toxic fell off of a fork lift and smashed opened. Nothing left the FedEx faciltiy for a day. So my box took over 48 hours instead of under 24.
Once the box was located and again on its way, I instructed the buyer not to acclimate the fish when they arrived but immediately to put them into the right tamp. There were 3 bags of 6/7/7 fish. When they arrived the buyer checked the temps. 2 bags were 60 and the other 59F. This is enough to be killing the fish which come from very warm waters.
Two fish were DOA and a third fish died overnight. I offered the buyer a choice of replacement of refund. He chose refund and I immediately sent his money. Had I not instructed him as I did, I firmly believe trying to acclimate the fish gradually into the proper temp. would have resulted in most or all of them dying.
Btw, this is why shipped fish are not as cheap as they might be. Neither FedEX, UPS nor USPS will insure live content. Even if they cause the death of the fish, the best we can expect is that the shipping cost might be refunded if not delivered as promised. That box of 20 zebras sold for about $3,750. I bought them to resell in order to be able to buy things more expensive at the same time which were much harder to find. So, when those 3/20 zebras died, I lost not only he profit from them but also the price I had paid for them.
I can tell you that the fish that are most likely to arrive alive and healthy are not the inexpensive ones, rather they are the ones which are on the more pricey side.
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