How many fish for my tank?

[Deeznuts]

I know a bit about plecos. I started with bristlenose- regular fins, long fins albinos. I eventually had to get rid of them all. My last spawn was over 100 fry. Just so you know. it takes years for them to get there.

I also keep clown loaches. I only have a 6 foot tanks 150 gals. But I only had 3 largeer ones 10 inch or more. I lost my biggest and oldest which was over 20 years old when it passed. So now I have 2 big ones and another 8 from 3+ to 5+ inches. They are one of my favorite fish.

My water is basically neutral pH and it is on the soft side. So I cannot be much help with harder water fish. As others have noted you need to know the numbers. Either buy the API GH test kit or else ask your local store if the can test your water if you bring in a sample. many store will do tests for you at least once if your a re customer. Hardness is more important in terms of fish selection than pH.

When I bought a proven breeding colony of zebra plecos along with a few of their fry, I knew two things about the adults, They were wild caught fish and were almost cetrainly genetically diverse. I was mentored re plecos by a few well known experts. These are the sort of people you see at weekend events doing the presentations and talks. The gal who set me up had assembled the group for the person from whom I purchased them.

One of the questions I asked her was how many generations I could go before I needed to introduce fresh genes, The answer was at least 5. Considering the fish generally need about 3 year from birth to spawning we were talking over 15 years. I lost some and added other over the past 20 years but now have sold them all off. The oldest ones are going to a retirement tanks on the ooposite side of the country from me.

Common tank strains of Bristlenose breed in a matter of months, not years, after they are born. Also, bristlenos plecos like wood. They do not eat it per se. They will hide under or in it and they will eat the algae and the critters living in the algae off of the wood. They are what is known as Aufwuchs feeders. most male plecos need caves to claim and to hide in.

So much information to digest from one person lol.

Firstly, what is an Aufwuch feeder lol. I tried looking online and I believe it’s a sort of micronism and wood encourages their growth. Is this visible to the naked eye?
I have a hiding place in the middle centerpiece but at the moment, one platy is hiding inside due to being bullied by another male platy, although it was the first platy inside the tank lol my mum has asked me to take him back to the fish shop and get a female.

You say common breed in a matter of months? Even if they were small? I was looking at a couple of two-inch Plecos.

I've read a little about plecos and like cichlids, I understand they have different hard water preferences. I assume the common would be the hardiest like most commons tend to be.
If the two I buy turn out to be both of the same sex, would that be safe? As in, they're not territorial are they?
I'd probably have to get another hide, otherwise.

Yeah, I definitely won't be getting clown loaches then. It doesn't seem fair.

 

[emeraldking]

but some platy’s are sold as cold water, so perhaps they’re misinformed?

In the wild, a large group of members of the Xiphophorus genus (swordtails and platies), occur in colder water instead of warmer waters in tropical countries where they originate from.
The problem is that there's a generalization going on for decades. People think that because these fish come from tropical countries, these fish must be tropical fish. While the truth is that we are dealing with tropical and subtropical fish from these countries depending on what kind of climate is present in that zone in such a country.

 

[angiemike6]

Although you do need to consider the water qualities that particular fish might need, I think people worry too much about it. I have a Juwel 180 litre tank which is probably overstocked. My water parameters are PH 7.8 and general hardness of 325 ppm which is fairly hard. I have 6 albino cory's, 4 clown loaches, 2 Bolivian Rams, 2 Golden Gourami's, 4 Congo Tetras, a bristle nosed pleco, a common pleco, 2 Cardinal Tetras, 2 Boesemani Rainbowfish, and 2 Golden Dwarf Cichlids. Many of these fish prefer soft water, but exist perfectly happily and harmoniously in my tank. All of the fish are more than 5 years old. The clown loaches for example are 12 years old but are no more than 5-6 inches long. The Golden Gourami's are actually longer than the clown loaches. I have not had any illness or deaths in my tank for a very long time (at least 3-4 years). What is important is that I do weekly 35% water changes, and clean the filter media in tank water at every change. The pump is disassembled and cleaned once a month. I would say that you should look to get the fish you are really interested in, and not be swayed too much by others. Introduce the fish slowly so that you do not put too much of an increase in to the bio load of the tank at any one time.

 

[Deeznuts]

Some dog and cat breeders regularly inbreed their animals to encourage certain traits (deformities) in their animals. It screws the animals up too just like fish. These are some common issues in dogs that are caused by breeders inbreeding animals.

Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, pugs, staffies, boxers and various other breeds with short snouts have breathing problems due to a shorter snout.
A number of small breeds have problems with their knees.
Certain breeds have hip dysplasia.
Breast cancer is genetic in dogs and breeders regularly inbreed animals that carry the gene for it.
There's a bunch of other issues that affect modern dog breeds that were virtually unheard of 50 or 60 years ago.

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Scuds might end up in the filter but it's not the best place for them. Just add them to the tank after the tank lights have been turned off and the fish are asleep. If you add them when the fish are awake and the fish are hungry, they might eat them.

Hey Colin,

I'm now at my parents and I've done a test on the parameters.

The Ph is 7.0
KH is 213.6ppm
GH > 143ppm .. much higher

Slight nitrates but I tested the tap water and it appears there's a slight amount of it naturally in the water. I understand that it takes a while for friendly bacteria, so I’m not too concerned.
I plan on doing a 25% change today, too.

I read that and quoting “Fish that require higher GH levels, such as cichlids and livebearers, can experience stunted growth, weakened immune systems, and even deformities if GH levels are not maintained properly. Low GH levels can also cause fish to become more susceptible to diseases such as fin rot and the dreaded ich”. So, I assume I don’t have to worry, too much.

 

[Deeznuts]

Although you do need to consider the water qualities that particular fish might need, I think people worry too much about it. I have a Juwel 180 litre tank which is probably overstocked. My water parameters are PH 7.8 and general hardness of 325 ppm which is fairly hard. I have 6 albino cory's, 4 clown loaches, 2 Bolivian Rams, 2 Golden Gourami's, 4 Congo Tetras, a bristle nosed pleco, a common pleco, 2 Cardinal Tetras, 2 Boesemani Rainbowfish, and 2 Golden Dwarf Cichlids. Many of these fish prefer soft water, but exist perfectly happily and harmoniously in my tank. All of the fish are more than 5 years old. The clown loaches for example are 12 years old but are no more than 5-6 inches long. The Golden Gourami's are actually longer than the clown loaches. I have not had any illness or deaths in my tank for a very long time (at least 3-4 years). What is important is that I do weekly 35% water changes, and clean the filter media in tank water at every change. The pump is disassembled and cleaned once a month. I would say that you should look to get the fish you are really interested in, and not be swayed too much by others. Introduce the fish slowly so that you do not put too much of an increase in to the bio load of the tank at any one time.

Your clown loaches are 12 years old and haven’t grown much more than 6 inches? I think that could be an issue with your general hardness being too high but I'm no expert. Just from what I've read or could be the small tank size.
How big is your common pleco? I don't think I'd ever think about keeping one unless I had a 6ft tank lol. I've seen many people make that mistake.

I do know what you're saying about the general hardness and people might be more selective based on that but I wouldn't personally want to risk it. I'd prefer my fish to thrive than to be just okay.

Tbh, I'm fortunate because the fish I intend to get, all thrive in high KH and GH, perhaps other than than the bristle nose but the fish place I spoke to said they have hard water and never had issues with them.

What filter are you using? I don't know if it's worth investing in one that works twice as good for the size or stick with the 200ehiem pick up.

 

[Colin_T]

Nitrates don't naturally occur in water but in some countries like England, they have nitrates in the tap water. The maximum legal level is about 40 or 50ppm of nitrate. However, you want to avoid drinking water with any nitrate in because it is harmful to your body (2 or 3ppm is not a big issue but 20-30ppm is). It's also harmful to all pets including dogs, cats, birds and fish. The higher the nitrate level, the more toxic it is. In an aquarium, we recommend keeping the nitrates as close to 0ppm and below 20ppm at all times. However, if you have 30ppm nitrate in the tap water, that's as low as you will get it in the tank without using reverse osmosis (r/o), distilled or rain water, or using terrestrial plants to use the nitrates in the water.

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If fish are kept in water with the wrong pH or GH (and to a lesser extent KH), they will have a weaker immune system and be more susceptible to diseases. However, it depends on how much difference there is in the water chemistry compared to their natural habitat, and how many generations they have been bred in captivity, and what the conditions were like in captivity.
eg: If you have a soft water fish that has been bred in captivity in hard water for 50 generations, it is going to be fairly tolerant of the water it has been bred in.
eg: If you have a soft water fish that has been bred in captivity for 5 generations it's still going to need water that is similar to its natural habitat.

Normally if you keep soft water fishes in hard water (contains lots of minerals), the fish can develop calcium build up (deposits) in their organs, which can stop the organs functioning correctly. They can have other issues too if there is a lot of sodium in the water because that can damage their kidneys and kill them.

If you keep hard water fishes in soft water, they lose minerals from their bodies and can have problems with their body not functioning correctly due to the lack of minerals. Mollies come from hard water and when they are kept in soft or acidic water, they develop the shimmies. This is where the fish swims in an S pattern but doesn't really go anywhere. If the fish is left in soft water they die. The problem is easily fixed by increasing the hardness for them.

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Incorrect water chemistry does not cause fin rot or white spot (Ichthyophthirius).

Fin rot is caused by poor water quality (usually ammonia) damaging the fins and allowing harmful bacteria into the damaged tissue.

White spot is caused by an external protozoan parasite and needs to be introduced into an aquarium via contaminated water, fish, plants, snails or ornaments. Plants, snails and ornaments don't catch white spot but can transfer it if there are any parasites on those items. Contaminated water is a common way for the disease to be transferred. The free swimming parasites get scooped up in some water and put in a bag with some fish, the parasites either infect the fish in the bag or the fish in your aquarium, and then you have an outbreak. It's easily prevented, just look at the fish in the shop tank. If they have white spot, don't get anything from that tank and if the shop uses a net in that tank and then goes into another tank, avoid getting any fish from there at that time.

 

[Deeznuts]

In the wild, a large group of members of the Xiphophorus genus (swordtails and platies), occur in colder water instead of warmer waters in tropical countries where they originate from.
The problem is that there's a generalization going on for decades. People think that because these fish come from tropical countries, these fish must be tropical fish. While the truth is that we are dealing with tropical and subtropical fish from these countries depending on what kind of climate is present in that zone in such a country.

Apologise, I've not replied sooner. I get pretty obsessed with my studies in the week. I'm at my parents and now have a little time away from them to reply.

It's funny how, only of late, I'm hearing about platys and swordtails being flexible in their living conditions. They were always sold as a tropical fish before now. I guess YouTube has been educating the fish world, perhaps. Or, more studies have been documented.

I imagine there's still errors in a lot of other fish species and their abilities to thrive in different temperatures, too.

 

[Deeznuts]

Nitrates don't naturally occur in water but in some countries like England, they have nitrates in the tap water. The maximum legal level is about 40 or 50ppm of nitrate. However, you want to avoid drinking water with any nitrate in because it is harmful to your body (2 or 3ppm is not a big issue but 20-30ppm is). It's also harmful to all pets including dogs, cats, birds and fish. The higher the nitrate level, the more toxic it is. In an aquarium, we recommend keeping the nitrates as close to 0ppm and below 20ppm at all times. However, if you have 30ppm nitrate in the tap water, that's as low as you will get it in the tank without using reverse osmosis (r/o), distilled or rain water, or using terrestrial plants to use the nitrates in the water.

-------------------

If fish are kept in water with the wrong pH or GH (and to a lesser extent KH), they will have a weaker immune system and be more susceptible to diseases. However, it depends on how much difference there is in the water chemistry compared to their natural habitat, and how many generations they have been bred in captivity, and what the conditions were like in captivity.
eg: If you have a soft water fish that has been bred in captivity in hard water for 50 generations, it is going to be fairly tolerant of the water it has been bred in.
eg: If you have a soft water fish that has been bred in captivity for 5 generations it's still going to need water that is similar to its natural habitat.

Normally if you keep soft water fishes in hard water (contains lots of minerals), the fish can develop calcium build up (deposits) in their organs, which can stop the organs functioning correctly. They can have other issues too if there is a lot of sodium in the water because that can damage their kidneys and kill them.

If you keep hard water fishes in soft water, they lose minerals from their bodies and can have problems with their body not functioning correctly due to the lack of minerals. Mollies come from hard water and when they are kept in soft or acidic water, they develop the shimmies. This is where the fish swims in an S pattern but doesn't really go anywhere. If the fish is left in soft water they die. The problem is easily fixed by increasing the hardness for them.

-------------------

Incorrect water chemistry does not cause fin rot or white spot (Ichthyophthirius).

Fin rot is caused by poor water quality (usually ammonia) damaging the fins and allowing harmful bacteria into the damaged tissue.

White spot is caused by an external protozoan parasite and needs to be introduced into an aquarium via contaminated water, fish, plants, snails or ornaments. Plants, snails and ornaments don't catch white spot but can transfer it if there are any parasites on those items. Contaminated water is a common way for the disease to be transferred. The free swimming parasites get scooped up in some water and put in a bag with some fish, the parasites either infect the fish in the bag or the fish in your aquarium, and then you have an outbreak. It's easily prevented, just look at the fish in the shop tank. If they have white spot, don't get anything from that tank and if the shop uses a net in that tank and then goes into another tank, avoid getting any fish from there at that time.

Mmm, by rainwater. Could I possibly use a water butt? I’m not sure how else I could obtain that much rainwater without using a butt.

By terrestrial plants, what do you mean?

Is there perhaps a hose attachment available that could filter out any nitrates in the tap when filling up?

Reverse osmosis, I imagine would be expensive to buy for the size tank I require.

Mmm, yeah I'll stick to the fish that I know are good for the parameters of water that I have. I won't be playing fish god.


Edit:
I’ve just tested the water in the cold water tank and both nitrate and nitrite are 0. It seems the plants inside the tank must have filtered it out of it.

 

[Colin_T]

If you want to collect rainwater, let it rain for at least 15 minutes to wash any dirt off the roof, then stick a plastic container under the down pipe for the gutter. You can also put a plastic sheet up and channel water into a bucket or storage container.

The only hose attachments that remove nitrates from tap water are reverse osmosis units.

 

[emeraldking]

It's funny how, only of late, I'm hearing about platys and swordtails being flexible in their living conditions. They were always sold as a tropical fish before now. I guess YouTube has been educating the fish world, perhaps. Or, more studies have been documented.

Like more fish from tropical countries, those fish are labeled as being tropical. People should be aware of the fact that tropical countries have got also subtropical zones.

I imagine there's still errors in a lot of other fish species and their abilities to thrive in different temperatures, too.

Oh, there certainly are a lot of errors for that matter. You also need to be aware of the fact that many information on the net are copies from texts from relevant aquarium fish books. And we just assume that those data given are correct. If you would go on some sort of an expedition in certain countries where those fish occur and observe them in the wild, you'll notice that not everything that has been written down in books seem correct. To me, such visits in the wild has been an eye opener. And I've also learned from the locals. A better education does not exist in my opinion.