Hideous Algae Growth

[RadaR]

The glutaraldehyde is not converted to CO2. However the plants can use the Carbon in the glutaraldehyde as an alternative to CO2. Plants given CO2 will grow double the speed than plants that are given glutaraldehyde. Because CO2 is better than glutaraldehyde. Glutaraldehyde is a good alternative though.

I was told by somebody else on the forum that there are not enough plants in there to be absorbing the EasyCarbo I was adding. While somebody else said it wouldn't matter if I was dosing EasyCarbo or not has it loses it's effect after 24 hours.

I'll copy and paste what i said earlier, which I believe answers your first point.

"2x24W of t5 is a heck of a lot of light without any carbon addition. I know you dont have a lot of plants but such a huge amount of light renders that irrelevant. With that much light you will need some carbon addition."

Easycarbo has a half life of 24hours. It doesnt completely go in 24hours. A few months ago I did wrongly word that to you and forgot the half life property.

 

[mark4785]

The glutaraldehyde is not converted to CO2. However the plants can use the Carbon in the glutaraldehyde as an alternative to CO2. Plants given CO2 will grow double the speed than plants that are given glutaraldehyde. Because CO2 is better than glutaraldehyde. Glutaraldehyde is a good alternative though.

I was told by somebody else on the forum that there are not enough plants in there to be absorbing the EasyCarbo I was adding. While somebody else said it wouldn't matter if I was dosing EasyCarbo or not has it loses it's effect after 24 hours.

I'll copy and paste what i said earlier, which I believe answers your first point.

"2x24W of t5 is a heck of a lot of light without any carbon addition. I know you dont have a lot of plants but such a huge amount of light renders that irrelevant. With that much light you will need some carbon addition."

Easycarbo has a half life of 24hours. It doesnt completely go in 24hours. A few months ago I did wrongly word that to you and forgot the half life property.

Given my plant stock and the fact that Easycarbo doesn't completely neutralise within 24hrs, would it be dangerous for me to be following the recommended dosage on the bottle which is '1ml per 50 litres per day'? You say the product has a form of carbon within it, surely this has some effect on the amount of oxygen in the water which is going through the gills?

Maybe a dose of 2ml (My aquarium contains 120 litres of water) every 3-4 days would be better?

edit: I know you say my high lighting is a good reason for adding liquid carbon, but still, the EasyCarbo will not neutralise until I do a water change which is a bit worrying.

 

[RadaR]

Honestly, it will be fine to follow that dosing.

You say the product has a form of carbon within it, surely this has some effect on the amount of oxygen in the water which is going through the gills?

It's commonly believed that high CO2 means low O2. This simply isnt the case though. An aquarium can successfully have good levels of CO2 and good levels of O2 levels at the same time. A higher value of one of those gases does not mean that the other gas is low. We strive for good levels of both gases. This can be achieved by providing some water surface movement to promote good gas exchange. Combine that with proper carbon addition and you can successfully have good CO2 levels and good O2 levels.
The gases could indirectly effect one another. By that I mean - by increasing the CO2, this increases plant growth which produces more oxygen as a product of photosynthesis.

every 3-4 days would be better?

No. Plants like the carbon to be stable. When carbon or CO2 is concerned, you must be strict with it's application. It's got to be daily. You cant pussy foot around with it.
The easycarbo will be there after 24hours, but only in small amounts. It wont dangerously bioaccumulate or biomagnify.
If it did, then how on earth have thousands of us managed to get away with it with no deaths?

 

[ian]

He's right Mark, you won't harm your fish with the correct doses of Easycarbo. I know several discus keepers who use easycarbo and haven't had any problems. They also dose nitrates...as Tom Barr did. If discus can take it, i'm sure GBRs can. But i would turn the airstone off, just for a couple of weeks, to see if it makes much difference.

 

[mark4785]

Honestly, it will be fine to follow that dosing.

You say the product has a form of carbon within it, surely this has some effect on the amount of oxygen in the water which is going through the gills?

It's commonly believed that high CO2 means low O2. This simply isnt the case though. An aquarium can successfully have good levels of CO2 and good levels of O2 levels at the same time. A higher value of one of those gases does not mean that the other gas is low. We strive for good levels of both gases. This can be achieved by providing some water surface movement to promote good gas exchange. Combine that with proper carbon addition and you can successfully have good CO2 levels and good O2 levels.
The gases could indirectly effect one another. By that I mean - by increasing the CO2, this increases plant growth which produces more oxygen as a product of photosynthesis.

every 3-4 days would be better?

No. Plants like the carbon to be stable. When carbon or CO2 is concerned, you must be strict with it's application. It's got to be daily. You cant pussy foot around with it.
The easycarbo will be there after 24hours, but only in small amounts. It wont dangerously bioaccumulate or biomagnify.
If it did, then how on earth have thousands of us managed to get away with it with no deaths?

Hi,

Well I've gone ahead and added 1.5ml of EasyCarbo. No corpses yet thankfully.

Before adding it I did a a 35% water change and I've added 10ml of Profito. It says to dose this every 7 days but I've known people add smaller amounts several times a week; any point in doing that? Is 10ml per 7 days enough to support the plants I have considering what lighting specs I have?

I may go ahead and add some phosphate as you seemed to imply phosphate test kits are inaccurate. Another forum member said to not bother dosing the tank with Fosfo and just rely on the phosphate that is available in fish flakes. Again, these are 2 relatively conflicting pieces of advice and I can't adhere to them both.

Is 5-10 ppm of Nitrate, produced naturally, good enough? I've had the Nitrate fertilizer for months and I've not even took the seal off.

One thing I noticed 10 minutes after adding the fresh water was the Ram rubbing itself on the sand. It jolted forward as though something was beginning to itch it and then dived into the substrate to rub itself. I've been dosing the aquarium with Protozin (parasite treatment) thinking it was the correct thing to do (and indeed it helped quite a bit; it stopped the rubbing for several days!) but maybe it's the GH and KH fluctuation induced by new water being added? I really don't know..

He's right Mark, you won't harm your fish with the correct doses of Easycarbo. I know several discus keepers who use easycarbo and haven't had any problems. They also dose nitrates...as Tom Barr did. If discus can take it, i'm sure GBRs can. But i would turn the airstone off, just for a couple of weeks, to see if it makes much difference.

If you were to take the 02 concentration of my water as fact (some people here don't seem to trust test kits) what reasoning do you place behind turning something off which is putting 02 into the water?

My 02 reading is somewhere between 5 mg/L and 8mg/L (I re-tested).

 

[ian]

its more of a case of surface movement, its not putting O2 into the water. If the balance of O2 and C02 were ok in your tank, i'd advise you to leave it as it is, but its obviously not, with BBA growing. We aim for a small ripple in planted tanks for gasseous exchange, not a large one that airstones produce.

^^this is only if not C02 is injected.

 

[mark4785]

its more of a case of surface movement, its not putting O2 into the water. If the balance of O2 and C02 were ok in your tank, i'd advise you to leave it as it is, but its obviously not, with BBA growing. We aim for a small ripple in planted tanks for gasseous exchange, not a large one that airstones produce.

^^this is only if not C02 is injected.

I'll turn the airstone off and see how the fish react. I'm just concerned that 28 degree C water will not hold as much oxygen and I'm especially concerned for the fish when at night the plants and the algae will be competing for oxygen as well.

 

[ian]

plants don't use as much O2 at night, photosynthesis slows right down. If theres enough aggitation coming from your filter (a ripple), then theres enough.

Mark, you really worry, when there no need to.

 

[mark4785]

plants don't use as much O2 at night, photosynthesis slows right down. If theres enough aggitation coming from your filter (a ripple), then theres enough.

Mark, you really worry, when there no need to.

Ok thanks Ianho.

There is a ripple for sure, just not a large ripple that creates splashes that you'd probably see in a LFS.

 

[SuperColey1]

Just to clarify what I said a few weks ago.

I was never suggesting to stop liquid carbon because with so few plants it may reach dangerous levels. dosing as per the bottle will not do that in a plantless tank.

What I was saying was that with so few plants its pointless. Its healthy plants in quantity that beat algae.

A tank with so few plants will not fight algae. Adding liquid C will just add food for algae. Algae are plants too. They consume CO2 in the day and O at night. They can survive on smaller amounts than 'higher' plants which is why in fluctuating setups they glen enough to go turbo.

The problem is your light as suggested in one of the first replies you ever got. Too much. You've tried for a month and you are seeing that the algae are gleaning the CO2 whilst there not being enough plants to counter.

As per my posts on the other thread though. In a non planted tank people talk about no surface turbulence. That applies if you are using the Walstad style of a rotting organic substrate like compost as that is producing CO2 above equilibrium and therefore will gas off, equally it applies to any 'uncrontolled CO2 injection like DIY.

If you are using a standard substrate then you have equilibrium. Gas will be used up and the water will return to equilibrium. Some will go out, the same amount will come in. however its not a problem to 'test' remove the airstone.

I am wondering why you have the temperature so high? Most of us will run 24 - 26 with no problems at all.

I also would vouch for those above in saying unless its a Ph hobby test then you may as well ignore the result. those things are useless unless calibrated and that is pretty technical in itself. especially with something like gas concentrations.

The answer is simple. For a non CO2 tank you have too much light. For a non CO2 and a CO2 enriched tank you have too few plants.

There is no in between in planted. You can go very low light and get away with a few plants. Anything above that and you have to pack it out whether you are adding CO2 or not. If you don't pack it out and you have anything approachign medium light then you are asking for trouble.

You seem to have quite a lot of fears regarding this hobby. Maybe time to stand back, assess the situation and determine which route you want to take. If it is worrying about tests, nitrates, O, temperatures, then planted is not going to work. Its a whole new ball game even for experienced reefers. What is bible in general fishkeeping terms has to go out of the window with planted otherwise it just brings the whole system down.

AC

 

[PDSimon]

GBRs need 27-28+ really, similar to discus, I've heard some people say that they're even more sensitive but thats not to say that easycarbo is effecting them, because I don't think it is.

 

[mark4785]

Just to clarify what I said a few weks ago.

I was never suggesting to stop liquid carbon because with so few plants it may reach dangerous levels. dosing as per the bottle will not do that in a plantless tank.

What I was saying was that with so few plants its pointless. Its healthy plants in quantity that beat algae.

A tank with so few plants will not fight algae. Adding liquid C will just add food for algae. Algae are plants too. They consume CO2 in the day and O at night. They can survive on smaller amounts than 'higher' plants which is why in fluctuating setups they glen enough to go turbo.

The problem is your light as suggested in one of the first replies you ever got. Too much. You've tried for a month and you are seeing that the algae are gleaning the CO2 whilst there not being enough plants to counter.

As per my posts on the other thread though. In a non planted tank people talk about no surface turbulence. That does apply if you are using the Walstad style of a rotting organic substrate like compost as that is producing CO2 above equilibrium and therefore will gas off. If you are using a standard substrate then you have equilibrium. Gas will be used up and the water will return to equilibrium. Some will go out, the same amount will come in. however its not a problem to 'test' remove the airstone.

I am wondering why you have the temperature so high? Most of us will run 24 - 26 with no problems at all.

I also would vouch for those above in saying unless its a Ph hobby test then you may as well ignore the result. those things are useless unless calibrated and that is pretty technical in itself. especially with something like gas concentrations.

The answer is simple. For a non CO2 tank you have too much light. For a non CO2 and a CO2 enriched tank you have too few plants.

There is no in between in planted. You can go very low light and get away with a few plants. Anything above that and you have to pack it out whether you are adding CO2 or not. If you don't pack it out and you have anything approachign medium light then you are asking for trouble.

You seem to have quite a lot of fears regarding this hobby. Maybe time to stand back, assess the situation and determine which route you want to take. If it is worrying about tests, nitrates, O, temperatures, then planted is not going to work. Its a whole new ball game even for experienced reefers. What is bible in general fishkeeping terms has to go out of the window with planted otherwise it just brings the whole system down.

AC

What sort of lighting would you suggest then? I'd rather have a small amount of plants and low lighting than pack more plants into the aquarium. I seriously don't know where you'd place anymore plants to be honest. There's me thinking it's nearly full to capacity, obviously not lol.

I see myself as primarily a fish keeper so that probably explains why the plants aren't doing too well. Most of these densely planted aquariums contain no fish; I personally don't see how you can please sensitive fish and plants at the same time.

If the lighting is the problem then I really do need some suggestions for picking alternative lighting as I haven't a clue what would be suitable.

 

[mark4785]

plants don't use as much O2 at night, photosynthesis slows right down. If theres enough aggitation coming from your filter (a ripple), then theres enough.

Mark, you really worry, when there no need to.

Ok thanks Ianho.

There is a ripple for sure, just not a large ripple that creates splashes that you'd probably see in a LFS.

I've taken a video of the ripple, which can be viewed at this URL: http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kkV-9ACug .

The left tank is the planted one.

On the right is the tank I'm currently cycling. The Eheim filter in the right handside tank is producing a substantial rippling effect; thats what I wish to see in the larger tank to the left but it doesn't seem attainable with the Cayman filter.

This may not be the right forum to ask but can anyone identify what the white substance is on the glass of the right handside aquarium??

Also, should there be more rippling taking place in the left tank?

Thanks.

 

[SuperColey1]

GBRs need 27-28+ really, similar to discus, I've heard some people say that they're even more sensitive but thats not to say that easycarbo is effecting them, because I don't think it is.

Didn't know that I used to keep my Bolivians at 25C just as I do with all fish. lol

So we have 1 theory to add now.

Some required reading for you Mark, These could be another problem you have. Just when you were searching on O being lower in higher temps, Co2 is too and therefore the light vs CO2 is multiplied further!!!
http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/6189-Water-temperature-affect-on-plants?

http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/5478-how-does-hight-water-temp-affect-the-need-for-ferts?

And to show you I have no problem with Ego. Her is me being told that I was wrong suggesting the 'minimal surface turbulence' in non CO2 tanks reasoning. That is nerly 2 years ago lol. long before I went non CO2. (need more data etc

http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/5107-Non-CO2-methods-to-ripple-or-not-to-ripple?

AC

 

[PDSimon]

German blue rams and bolivian rams are quite different, I have bolivian rams and they're much hardier and can be kept at lower temps compared to german blue rams, which people often have problems with... even experienced fish keepers.

I see myself as a fish keeper too, plants are second to fish, but imo if you have healthy plants, you have healthy fish, unless you're going mental with pressurised co2