hey there, this is Pov. i would love to chat about any thing i have lots to learn.

[pov]

I have two tanks one is about 200lt and the other is probably 140 they are both rescued tanks, the 140 I got from my sister the back smashed so I patched it up and siliconed in a picture to hide the patches. I enjoyed it so brought some more glass to add to some I had laying around and built the deep 200 litre .

I finished moving all my fish and a few new ones today Into the 200.
I have had these fish for 12 months now they are African chiclids. I have built a stump with an intense cave system in the first 1/2 foot of the tank , I imagine I could have at least 30 mbunas living in the system that only come out when I tap for food, in the morning or when I turn on the lights which, incredible spacious. I haven't put in any plants yet I have room for improvements and am open to suggestions.
My new fish I added today are 2 giraffe or venustus plus an extra electric yellow.

The yellow was to replace my other one ,because at first I only put in my 3 female blue zebra and non dominant kenyi male .they really loved it alone but became really aggressive with all the extra room . When I also add my electric yellow the day after he was attacked and drilled in the flanks, the second I put him in. he went and layed on the sand on his side and then hid and only came out later tonight , hooray.
I added the alpha blue zebra and new fish, altogether today and the former ,they have calmed again all is good the giraffes have found a spot in the sand the alpha zebra owns the under world ,at least till he finishes building his nest.
I keep the ph above 7.5 but my main goal is the low ppm and high carbonate hardness I need help with this I cant get it , I think I need to add a strong acid.
My lights are growlush 130 watt I can change colours if I want I don't use air or co2. My filter is home made I've got 1200 Lt/hr pump sucking into a internal sump and use filter mats with a fairly large space cut in the lid it moves a fair stream but you can't see the effect in the tank I guess it's probably moving a 10 cm sqr cube per second.
I have crushed coral over the caves and sand as well.
the other tank has guppies in it .and since it,s where my fish were housed I,s not decorated. I also have two 250 ltr water boilers with plants guppies and gold fish ,and crayfish out side.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

If you have African Rift Lake cichlids you want water that has a general hardness (GH) above 300ppm and a pH above 7.6.

If you have soft water (low mineral content), you can add a Rift Lake conditioner that consists primarily of calcium and magnesium chlorine and carbonates and this will increase the GH, KH & pH.

The Rift Lake water conditioner can also be used for guppies, which require a GH above 200ppm and a pH above 7.0.

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A good plant to try in a cichlid tank is Water Sprite (Ceratopteria thalictroides/ cornuta). This is a floating plant that can also be grown in the substrate. It grows rapidly as a floating plant and you can plant the new plants in the gravel and it is fine if the fish dig them up or eat them.

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If you want to add new fish to a tank that already has cichlids in, you should rearrange the tank just before you release the new fish into the tank. This breaks up the old territories and gives the new fish a chance to settle in while everyone argues over where they are going to sleep. If you don't break up the established territories the new fish get bashed like the electric yellow did.

You should be very careful when keeping Pseudotropheus species and the kenyii because they are very aggressive when mature. I normally recommend getting a group of young fish and adding all the fish together at the same time. Then they can grow up together.

 

[pov]

hi collin ,thanks for welcoming me. about the water parameters , I am trying kh should be 20' .gh around 300 ppm . tap water here is prob 250 but I learnt from hydroponics gh and ph are the same , not so in aquariums but 300 ppm is just water where a ph of 8 is fairly wild . The kh levels are high though . I did think I understood i had the tank perfect from using my own powders then it changed and my cycled water wouldn't do it again ." I was meant to have the powder and shells in there and that made the parameters perfect. " that's when I learned that shells and cal mag also buffered acid waters too. Got totally lost now I just put a pinch of powder in with a water change because I use below 30 ppm water from my raintank. Check nitrates and high ph the rest is just so random . I really do need to learn it properly.
thanks for the suggestions. And check out the photos

 

[FishGuest5123]

Welcome! Hope you enjoy the forum.

 

[pov]

thanks..

 

[Colin_T]

general hardness (GH) is normally the calcium and magnesium chloride that is dissolved in the water.

carbonate hardness (KH) is the carbonates and bicarbonates that are dissolved in the water. These can be calcium, magnesium or sodium carbonate or bicarbonate, or any combination of those.

pH is affected by KH and GH, but mostly KH. Shells, limestone and dead coral skeletons are all made of calcium carbonate and will increase the pH and can cause the pH to go up to 8.5 depending on how much is in the tank. They also increase the GH and KH a little bit but not a lot.

If you are using rainwater, you should add a Rift Lake conditioner to increase the GH, KH and pH. You should also make the water up 24 hours before you use it. Get a large plastic storage container or a new clean plastic rubbish bin and fill it with water. Add the recommended amount of Rift Lake conditioner to the bucket of water and aerate/ circulate it for at least 24 hours before using it.

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

Hello and welcome

 

[pov]

hey,
GH is better described in ppm although I have found it used differently in the different cultures.
Gh is the measure of all elements that are soluble or ions in the water (this describes ph but it is measured by h+ ions ). in ppm
Kh is the measure of the calcium and magnesium although there can also be the measure of ca & mg as gh & kh usually written as alkalinity as caco3 & alkalinity as c03. german degrees hardness for kh (dkh) and meq/l for gh or possible mg/l. this is because kh is better described by levels of carbonates and there ability to take on a H+ or oh- ion in there equilibrium processes & ca and mg are the most common carbonates & also nitrates and phosphates,sulfates are like carbonates.

I make my own conditioner it is the way acids and salts work with kh that I have trouble with. I am also using a ph 8 block atm for the first time.
my conditioner ..
well lake Malawi has about.
Na=21.0 mg/l so 66.5 mg baking soda
ca=20.7 mg/l 7.08mg sea salt
mg=8.8 mg/l 14.1 mg Epsom salt
chloride=4.3mg/l 51.7 mg garden lime
so4=5.5mg/l this makes 141 litres of water.
sio2=1.4mg/l I also switched some Epsom salt for gym chalk in the end
po4=<30mg/l because this recipe has a little much sulfur.

this makes my parameters ph 8 . ppm 300, 7dkh kh roughly anyway.
the ph 8 block also has an ingredient called hcl I think it is hydrochloric acid and I have seen it written as this in my text books before, do you know anything about this, or is it sodium and chloride ions that effect it . I cant seem to find any experience info online about working with kh.

 

[Colin_T]

Why don't you just buy a premade Rift Lake conditioner?
They have been designed for Rift Lake cichlids and everything is measured out.

HCl is hydrochloric acid and has no place in a Rift Lake tank.

Sodium Chloride (salt) is NaCl.

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) is the only readily available bicarbonate that dissolves in water. Calcium carbonate (chalk, limestone, shells, coral skeleton) and Magnesium carbonates do not dissolve in water but do neutralise acids (nitric acid from fish waste) in water.

If you add Calcium or Magnesium bicarbonate, they do dissolve in water to a degree, most of it dissolves but a small amount doesn't.

 

[pov]

I made my own because I can do the maths and measure it out. It,s fairly lengthy. And also because rift lake salt is secret ingredients. " I can't recall what that's called" also because things like ph up are usually baking soda and it,s wise to understand what science your using instead of magic ph up... It,s a habit I guess .
I find it funny that you even need to add carbonates to the water considering the way all the equilibriums work.
I like what you said about carbonates being dissolvable I have read a paper about it something to do with saturation levels and reminds me off how co2 changing ph the opposite way at higher ph levels.
I do get following the normal routines as well like not thinking outside the box even when the norm seems wrong or unimportant.

 

[Byron]

You should not be adding common salt (Sodium Chloride, sea salt, aquarium salt) to a freshwater aquarium, ever. It does harm fish over time and it is certainly not necessary. As a specific treatment for specific disease, yes, but not as a matter of routine use.

Baking soda is also not advisable. It is not a reliable buffering agent.

You are much better to use either a prepared mineral salts product, or even better, simply use a calcareous substrate sand (not including common salt). The latter last literally forever.

 

[pov]

I see that you should use water conditioner to get rid of free chlorines and chlorates and I have seen the damage it can do to fish. Chloride is natural in water though . and it kills bad stuff .. I use it from tap water to keep algae ec. At bay in my ponds.
the cursed baking soda isn't that bad this is the properties of sodium itself i know it is less useful as buffering agent like say a phosphate which has -4 charge it would be awesome but they are rarely soluble and cause algae.

 

[FishGuest5123]

You should not be adding common salt (Sodium Chloride, sea salt, aquarium salt) to a freshwater aquarium, ever. It does harm fish over time and it is certainly not necessary. As a specific treatment for specific disease, yes, but not as a matter of routine use.

Baking soda is also not advisable. It is not a reliable buffering agent.

You are much better to use either a prepared mineral salts product, or even better, simply use a calcareous substrate sand (not including common salt). The latter last literally forever.

I was about to argue with you when you said “ never” but see that you did approve it for certain diseases.

 

[Byron]

I see that you should use water conditioner to get rid of free chlorines and chlorates and I have seen the damage it can do to fish. Chloride is natural in water though . and it kills bad stuff .. I use it from tap water to keep algae ec. At bay in my ponds.
the cursed baking soda isn't that bad this is the properties of sodium itself i know it is less useful as buffering agent like say a phosphate which has -4 charge it would be awesome but they are rarely soluble and cause algae.

The point with the baking soda is two-fold. First, it does not really do what is needed, and that is supply more calcium and magnesium which the fish here being discussed (rift lake cichlids) require. A calcareous substrate would provide increased hard minerals, higher pH, without any other agent. Which leads to the second issue, that every substance added to the water in an aquarium will get inside the fish by natural osmosis and at the gills. Additives/substances should thus be kept as minimal as possible. And while not all of these will kill the fish, many will weaken them, and all do affect them physiologically. There is no reason to be adding phosphate to an aquarium, ever; phosphates from fish foods will supply more than what plants require except in aquatic garden planted tanks but we are not talking those here.

 

[pov]

that's also why you should know what product,s your using when you use stuff like ph up and conditioner. Especially with fish, I
I have been reading about a product called di sodium phosphate and mono sodium phosphate it s commonly used in water buffers. It actually stops calcium scale I am pretty certain that's from the phosphate side I, doubt that sodium ions would .phosphate is good fir the fish,s metabolising makes them adapt quicker.
I don't add any but a few phosphate rocks ,little ones .but I am begging for algae growth ,I haven't. Even had to clean my glass in 8 months except for calcium scale. This I think is sodium and chloride levels I am constantly thinking about lowering them. We'll I have baking soda and probably a phosphate ,"it,s secret ingredients too"