Happy Tank Happy Wife-HELP PLEASE!

[Shann]

Hi
I have had a little fish tank up and running for about 8 months now-so am not a complete newbie...all is happy and Well all fish alive still-(I have read a lot of articles on here in that time) however my issue lies with my 180L tank. I bought this baby second hand and it’s had a few issues...

I have had this tank for a month now.
I transferred all the filter media etc wet, as well as a good 1/3 of the water got it home ASAP.

All looked well until I realised it had excessive (dreaded-which was unknown to me at the time) BBA throughout, on the plant, outside of filter media box and on the substrate. I took the substrate out of the tank, and dosed the tank with No More Black beard for two weeks which has killed the BBA (I felt I needed to do this as the BBA was floating around the water too)

When I got the tank it smelt fishy and the nitrates were off the charts, so I was doing regular 20% water changes which were not helping, so I washed the filter media out in old tank water.

It also had worms apparently as the whole tank started to become infested throughout. I really didn’t want to put any chemicals in it, so I did a 100% water change, getting rid of as many as I could (gag!) but even after that huge job they continued to curl up in a little pile on the ground and breed like crazy (even though their was no food in here, and no fish!) I got frustrated and put 7 baby Molly’s into here (which had outgrown the breeding box they were in) who to my delight gobbled all the worms up (hoping that the worms didn’t do any damage to them!) the nitrates after my big water change were looking good, but since testing from them they have been bright yellow-at 0 (I’m using API test kit) the ammonia and nitrites also seems to be at 0, and the PH rose to a light but bright blue colour and has now dropped to 6.8 after adding some gold vine (Pre soaked) which is good because I bought this tank to be a discus tank (I already have all the good for them!)

So my question is, did I mess up my cycle from the 100% water change causing it to stall which is why nitrates are not being produced??? Why am I seeing no ammonia since I now have fish in the tank? Is everything fine and I have just managed to keep nitrates down? I have been testing for the last two weeks now with nothing changing, I added my filter media from my other tank a week ago (to the bottom of the tank a sit doesn’t fit into the actual filtration system) in hope that this would change something. If anything, fish keeping has taught me a fair bit of patience! Looking foward to the day I can get some discus in my tank, but for now any advice is very much appreciated.
7 baby balloon mollies (about 2 months old-I’m waiting until they are bigger before I sell them and convert to discus tank)
The molly babies are perky and seem really happy/eating and growing lots!
Tank size:180L
Brand Juwels Vision 180
Decoration x1 large Mongolian Gold vine wood
Plus, 1 unknown piece of wood with a common aquatic plant (can’t rember the name!) and some java? moss attached
No substrate
Jewels original filter
Air bubbler
Eheim Heater (which is currently off as it’s driving me crazy too!) plus the water is sitting at a good 26in our summer heat.
PH 6.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

Love the title of this thread (Happy tank happy wife - HELP)

If the tank had black beard algae in I would have flushed and disinfected everything. However, if the tank is set up and you have got it under control then don't bother now.

7 baby balloon mollies won't cause the ammonia levels to go up rapidly in a 180 litre tank. You probably had some filter bacteria left in the filter and that has re-established and is doing its job.

Small water changes (20%) don't do anything useful because they leave 80% of the gunk behind. You are better off doing a 75% water change and gravel cleaning the substrate when you do water changes. If there is lots of gunk in the gravel you get aquatic worms in it. The easiest way to control these is by doing a 75% water change and gravel clean every day for a week. Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

The pH is too low for mollies. If you have another tank to put the driftwood in, that might help get the pH back above 7.0. Otherwise check the general hardness (GH) and carbonate hardness (KH) of the water and maybe increase them. Mollies naturally occur in water with a GH above 250ppm and a pH above 7.0. if they are kept in soft acid water (GH less than 150ppm, pH below 7.0) they don't do well.

 

[Shann]

Some photos of my tank

 

[Colin_T]

If you want discus in that tank, I would be concerned about the roots sticking out from the wood. Perhaps find a different piece of wood without so many little pointy bits, or cut some off and smooth the edges.

I assume you are going to put some substrate in the tank. You can add plants and gravel now and the plants will be able to grow a bit before you get the discus.

You need to modify your signature so it takes up less space. Currently your post is tiny and your signature is huge

 

[Shann]

Thank you for the welcome.
Happy wife happy life help...as my husband has learned with me that my animals have to be happy!!! I’m the crazy lady that does U turns while driving to check if a bird has been hit on the side of the road and have random dogs and cats litter lay sitting at our front door on a regular basis so I can help them find their way home!
I’ll literally worry about that bird for the next few weeks otherwise!

Yes BBa is all gone now, and I did disinfect everything-it was a mission, used hydrogen prioxide, and then the The product No more Blackbeard solution which is quite similar to flourish excel-seems to be 100% gone

Not sure if you read my post fully through or not, but there is no substrate in my tank anymore as I want to make it a discus tank.
Worms are also gone as my mollies ate them-all of them!

I always de-chlorinate my water before going back onto my tank with Prime.
As for PH, I wasn’t aware that they needed higher PH, haven’t got a tank big enough to put the gold vine wood in unfortunately, otherwise I would do so. The store I bought the fish from the PH was the same, so I’m assuming the mollies have been breed in that same water-Like my babies have. They are all swimming around very happily and growing quickly. If it is bad for them I’ll move them all on, was only planning on keeping 3.
I Don’t want to alter the water too drastically because as I said this will be my discus tank in the coming months when I have found new homes for the mollies and figured out why my nitrates are not showing up.

 

[Shann]

Ok, I’ll work on the piece of wood. The shop I got if from keep discus and said it would be great for my tank, but I realise there is lots of mis-information out there.

No, I will have a bare bottom tank as I have read a lot about it being easier to keep with discus as they are messy eaters and they like a clean tank.

Oops will modify now! Sorry!!!

P.S thanks for your recommendations

 

[Colin_T]

You can have substrate in a tank with discus and the fish will feel more comfortable with some substrate. You don't need a thick layer but all fish feel more comfortable with a layer of sand or gravel over the base.

If the GH is high enough for the mollies then a slightly low pH should not be too much of an issue. But if the GH is high enough for the mollies then it will be too high for the discus. You should find out what the GH is so you know if the water will be suitable for the discus or mollies.

If you contact your water supply company (via website or telephone), they should be able to tell you what the GH and KH are. If they can't provide you with the information, take a glass full of tank water to the local pet shop and ask them to test it for you. When you find out the GH & KH, ask what the test results are in (eg: ppm or dGH) because they have different meanings.

 

[FishGuest5123]

On another forum there are quite a lot of people with bare bottom tanks. Some actually look quite nice. I only do bare bottom in my nursery tanks as it’s easier to clean up after 60 to 100 fry that way. I float plants for them to hang in.

 

[Colin_T]

Ok, I’ll work on the piece of wood. The shop I got if from keep discus and said it would be great for my tank, but I realise there is lots of mis-information out there.

No, I will have a bare bottom tank as I have read a lot about it being easier to keep with discus as they are messy eaters and they like a clean tank.

Discus can sometimes panic and if there are pointy branches sticking out they could swim into one and get injured.

If you have a thin layer (1/2 inch) of sand or gravel over the base it is easy to keep clean with a gravel cleaner and gives the fish a definite base or bottom of the tank without any reflections to stress or startle them.

Discus are no messier than any other fish when it comes to eating. You offer a small amount of food and let them eat it, then offer a little bit more. Continue offering a few little bits at a time until they are full and then stop feeding them and remove any uneaten food.

A bare glass tank goes back to the old days when people didn't use gravel cleaners and discus from Asia were crap quality and full of diseases. A lot of them are still like that. They kept them in bare glass tanks in dark quiet rooms that nobody dared go near in case you scared the fish.

Yes discus and all fish need a clean tank but regular water changes and gravel cleaning, and filter maintenance will keep the tank clean. A 75% water change done each week is usually sufficient for them and helps keep nutrients and disease organisms at low levels.

The calmest happiest discus you will see are fish kept in display tanks where lots of people walk past. The fish get use to people moving around them and just relax a lot more compared to fish kept in a dark quiet room where nobody goes. Lots of plants help too and you can grow plants in pots so you don't need lots of gravel.

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When you do get your discus, go into the shop each day for a few days beforehand and watch them feeding the fish. Make sure the fish are eating well and have no stringy white poop. Make sure they are not skinny or have any sunken areas around their head and upper back. The fish should come up to the glass when someone approaches with food and watch you if you slowly move your hand above the tank.

If the fish don't eat properly, don't get them.

If one fish in the tank looks sick, don't get them or wait a couple of weeks and monitor them over that time. Discus are not big sellers so it is unlikely the fish will be sold during that time.

 

[Shann]

Deanasue I don’t actually Mind mine bare (I thought I’d hate it) and was originally going to put sand down. I could imagine your nursery tanks to get quite messy with so many fish!

 

[Shann]

I may put sand down then which was any original plan Colin_T I’m assuming you keep discus?
How many feedings a day for a adult and how many for a juvie?
I was going to get older discus, but like you said the happiest fish are busier and my discus certainly will not be shut in a dark room, so maybe it would be worth getting youngsters even though they are more maintenance from what I have read when younger may be happier when older or would they just adapt?
Also, while we are in this topic what sorts of plants would you recommend considering the water is at a higher temp?

 

[Colin_T]

We kept and bred them in the shop and they were kept in tanks with lots of gravel, plants and other fish in the tank.

Young discus travel better and settle into tanks better than adults. They are also significantly cheaper than adults so better value for money. By young I am talking about fish that are about 2-3 inches in diameter. Do not get imported discus that are less than 1.5-2 inches because they don't do well. If you know a local breeder who has some that size they will be fine, but the imported babies starve and suffer badly.

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Young fish should be fed 3-5 times per day.
Adult fish that are just hanging about should be fed once a day.
Adult fish that are breeding or being conditioned for breeding, should be fed 3-5 times per day.

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Most true aquatic plants are fine in tanks with warm water. Some good plants to try include Ambulia, Hygrophila species, Elodia/ Hydrilla, Sword plants, narrow Vallis, twisted Vallis and Water Sprite (Ceratopteris thalictroides/ cornuta).

Water Sprite is a floating plant that can also be grown in the substrate. All the other plants should be grown in the gravel.

They all grow well in pots and you can use 1-2 litre plastic containers to grow them in. I put a 1 inch layer of gravel on the bottom of the container. I sprinkled a thin layer of granulated garden fertiliser over that. Then I put a 6mm (1/4 inch) layer of powdered red clay on that. I filled the container up with gravel and planted the plants in it. The clay stops the fertiliser leaching into the water and the plant roots grow down into the clay and fertiliser and then they take off and go nuts.

 

[Byron]

Bare bottom tanks are sometimes thought "better" especially for discus, but this is not really the case. It is fine for a breeder to raise fry in such tanks, with more frequent water changes (some do 2 and 3 90% water changes every day) to encourage healthy rapid growth. But mature fish in a display tank setting should never be in a tank with no substrate.

The substrate is the single most important part of a balanced healthy biological system. The filter is not anywhere near as important, and you can easily have a planted tank of fish with no filter. But the substrate is important and necessary. The various types of bacteria that live in the substrate are essential and only colonize substrates. And, most of us do not want to be doing daily major water changes, so having a substrate of sand or fine gravel solves that problem too.

I know there are (or were) a couple members here with no-substrate tanks, and no doubt they will say it works. But it is a risk, and it will stress the fish. Aside from the need for the substrate biologically, there is the very serious issue of reflected light that Colin detailed. There is no logical need to make life more stressful or difficult for our fish.