Hair Algae Growing In Java Moss

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attibones

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So, guys, in my twenty gallon cherry shrimp tank, I've got hair algae growing among a clump of java moss. My lights are on for I think eight or nine hours. It's a well planted tank. Java fern, various floaters, amazon compacta, anubius and fern species, elodea, and some val species. The shrimp (and some snails) are the only inhabitants. 
 
I'm going to reduce the photoperiod. Should I do a blackout? What other things should I do? If the algae was growing on any different plant I would just wash it off, but I'm afraid I'd lose most of my moss. Ideas?
 
Anybody got any ideas?? It's just getting worse and I don't know what to do.
 
ive been trying to find a solution for this.... sorry if im reopening a 2 month old post, but did you get rid of it?
Ive read that you can squirt flourish excel directly on to it?
its quite expensive but time and time again ive read that you largely dose the tank initally after a 40% water change then 5ml a day after that depending on tank size, some people say that they have squirted it directly on to plants and it has disapeared, leave the lights on for 5 hours. I also read that someone left the lights off for 8 days and it went? im going on holiday soon so I may do this and report back.
 
it is liquid co2 basically, and it also contains something that kills algae....
I havent tried it as im using a different liquid fert and going to buy flourish after thats gone... (I hate to waste money!) 
 
I know its caused by an imbalance, water flow, lighting, im trying to get mine under control at the minute by minimising light- nightmare bba

also contains copper, so be sure not to overdose for the sake of the shrimp and snails, although I have also read it doesnt affect them :)
 
I just saw this thread, don't know why I missed it originally...but no matter.
 
While nic1's suggestion of the liquid carbon can work, it is only a band-aid as the algae will return if the cause is not remedied.  And this is a balance issue (light and nutrients) as mentioned, nothing else.  Any other "treatment" is not addressing the issue.  I won't spend time detailing as this may not be relevant any longer, but if it is, I will, just ask.
 
Byron.
 
Hi Byron,
I wouldn't mind a bit of info on this.
I've got a PH of 6.4
Kh of 6
GH of 3-6 its in between (using strips)
No3 10- water change day tomorrow.
No2 0

I change the water every Thursday 20%
Use 10 ml ferrepol liquid fert every Friday.

Have 10 glo tetras
8 Cory's
10 zebra danio
3 white cloud that slipped in with the tetras

I have a fluval profile 1200 325L tank with original t5 light, I only use two lights rather than the four, leave the light on for 5 hours, up until a week ago it was 8 hours.

Planted, also has floating plants, sand substrate, bog/drift wood.

I think that's it, I really do appricate your input.
 
Off the top, I will suggest that the light is probably on the bright side.  T5 fluorescent tube lighting often uses HO (high output) tubes which are roughly 1.5 times brighter than comparable T8 tubes (I have T8 still) and two tubes over a tank is a fair bit of light.  Reducing the duration can sometimes help to restore the balance, but if the light intensity is significant to begin with, other steps are also necessary.  Floating plants is one, so that's good here.
 
I am not familiar with JBL Ferrepol fertilizer, and I checked their website and they don't give a list of the nutrient ingredients but they say it contains "iron, potassium and other essential minerals and trace elements" so giving them the benefit of doubt it is probably fairly complete.  If you are so inclined, when it is gone you could look into Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti, which I know is a comprehensive supplement, or the very similar Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement.  I use the latter, but both are basically the same.  An excess of iron for example can cause algae issues, as indeed can an excess of some other nutrients too.
 
I don't think it is an issue here, but I would recommend you check your tap water GH with the municipal water folks just to be certain of the level.  There is quite a significant difference for some plants between 3 and 6 dGH.  The tap/source water is the prime source of the "hard" minerals, as most fertilizer preparations assume one has moderately hard tap water and thus these minerals are minimal.  I have near-zero GH in my tap water so I have to supplement the hard minerals above what is in the liquid preparations, though only in three of my seven tanks, because of the plant species and their calcium/magnesium needs being different.
 
So to the brush algae...once you find the balance that works, you will still see this (or some other type of algae) but it will be under control.  Plant species, the number of plants, the amount of fertilizers, water changes, fish load/feeding...all these factor into this balance.
 
One often reads that CO2 is a cause, but this while partly true is a bit misleading.  It is the balance that is out, and CO2 is but one nutrient in that balance, but for most (without CO2 diffusion) this nutrient will be more significant because we are relying on natural CO2 and therefore cannot control it like we can the other fertilizer nutrients and the lighting.  This is why one sometimes has to fiddle with the lighting duration; it is mainly the CO2 that one needs to balance with the light, and then supplement the other nutrients accordingly.
 
Water flow is another "cause" sometimes mentioned, but this is something of a misconception too.  Water current or no water movement, neither will "cause" brush algae if the light and nutrients are balanced to begin with.  I had a tank running for over a year that had no filter, no light, just a heater; it sat in the south-facing window.  It was an experiment of sorts, and the plants grew fine, the fish were happy, and I never had algae issues once I got the daylight under control to balance.  Yet in my larger tanks with canister filters, I do see some brush algae if the balance gets out, and there is always a bit around the filter intake and return tubes.  So my point here is that the algae takes advantage of the imbalance, whether there is water movement or not.  If anything, water movement would tend to be more likely to lead to algae.
 
Hope this helps, but feel free to question.
 
Byron.
 
No, I never got this issue solved. It is contained to my moss clump (and only one of the two clumps). Today I pulle out a large portion (which I have to do regularly) and I toss it in the trash. The algae clings to my beautiful Malaysian driftwood like it's been glued...

I have excel on hand, but I've never even opened it. I had accidentally purchased it and never used it after a comment from Byron led me to do research on the product. I do not wish to use the product if at all possible.

I just did a water change. I'll admit I have been neglecting this tank and I haven't done a proper water change in a while. I did a small one today; with the evaporation and removal of some old water, I added about six or seven gallons of new water. I've been in a funk for a while and the plants have been doing really well, so I've left the tank to its own devices for a while. Perhaps this is the root of the cause of the hair algae?

All my test tubes for my test kit broke, so I've got to get some new ones before I can get any kind of accurate readings on the tank parameters. I'm noticing a depletion in my shrimp stock, likely due to the water softening too much from the lack of fresh water comin in (I've been a terrible fish owner lately). I'm assuming ammonia and nitrite are at good numbers due to all the plants, and I should hope that my floaters are reducing nitrate, but I can't be positive because of how long I've gone with a proper water change.
 
attibones said:
No, I never got this issue solved. It is contained to my moss clump (and only one of the two clumps). Today I pulle out a large portion (which I have to do regularly) and I toss it in the trash. The algae clings to my beautiful Malaysian driftwood like it's been glued...

I have excel on hand, but I've never even opened it. I had accidentally purchased it and never used it after a comment from Byron led me to do research on the product. I do not wish to use the product if at all possible.

I just did a water change. I'll admit I have been neglecting this tank and I haven't done a proper water change in a while. I did a small one today; with the evaporation and removal of some old water, I added about six or seven gallons of new water. I've been in a funk for a while and the plants have been doing really well, so I've left the tank to its own devices for a while. Perhaps this is the root of the cause of the hair algae?

All my test tubes for my test kit broke, so I've got to get some new ones before I can get any kind of accurate readings on the tank parameters. I'm noticing a depletion in my shrimp stock, likely due to the water softening too much from the lack of fresh water comin in (I've been a terrible fish owner lately). I'm assuming ammonia and nitrite are at good numbers due to all the plants, and I should hope that my floaters are reducing nitrate, but I can't be positive because of how long I've gone with a proper water change.
 
Yes, water changes that are regular and reasonably substantial do prohibit brush algae, and others too.  Obviously, this is just one factor, and the imbalance which I would suggest is present cannot be over-ridden by a water change.  But they do help.
 
You/we would have to examine lighting and nutrients in order to restore the balance.  I can say however that Java Moss is a relatively low-light plant, and if it is under the protection of floating plants it should not become a home to brush algae.  I have thick brush algae on most all of the many pieces of bogwood in my tanks, but this only spreads to the plants themselves (and some of the wood is heavy with Java Moss along the upper portions) when I fiddle with the balance by increasing fertilizers or light.
 
Byron.
 
Are brush algae and green hair algae the same? I'm looking at pictures of the two and they appear to be very different. I've got algae that looks like this: 
 
hair algae.jpg
 
Anyway, I've got to reduce the photoperiod. My lights are kind of intense. I'm looking up the lights that I have right now, but I've forgotten the actual specs now. When I do water changes, I add about 2ml of Flourish for the ludwigia species and some of the other plants. All the plants are doing well, including the moss with the algae in it. This clump of moss is just to the left of the return of one of the two filters on the tank.
 
attibones said:
Are brush algae and green hair algae the same? I'm looking at pictures of the two and they appear to be very different. I've got algae that looks like this: 
 
attachicon.gif
hair algae.jpg
 
Anyway, I've got to reduce the photoperiod. My lights are kind of intense. I'm looking up the lights that I have right now, but I've forgotten the actual specs now. When I do water changes, I add about 2ml of Flourish for the ludwigia species and some of the other plants. All the plants are doing well, including the moss with the algae in it. This clump of moss is just to the left of the return of one of the two filters on the tank.
 
The photo is quite small, but I would say that is hair algae.  And going back to an earlier post wherein you mentioned removing this algae from other surfaces...brush algae is very difficult to get off plant leaves and usually the plant leaf goes with it.  Hair algae is easier to remove, it can be swirled around a roughish stick or toothbrush.
 
Hi Byron, thanks for the advice.
I was actually thinking that I need to change my lighting  (and hood as the cats have ruined it), but since buying my house all of the funds are at an all time low, but its on my to get list after all the home renovations are complete! 
 
I will look into brightwell aquatics florinmulti, I was actually quite excited by flourish excel but I have since read that many people are dead against using it because of its ability to wipe out fish stock on the first use.... so I might side step that one and get the one you mentioned.
 
I have bought more plants..... guppy grass just to chuck in there as I heard it is extra fast growing, minimized the light by 3 hours, so I guess the next step is to swap over the ferts and change the lighting and hood, I have scrubbed off what I could and cut most of the infected leaves, the BBA looks good in some places though, on the outlet pipe for example, it looks somewhat placed purposely-as long as it doesnt engulf the tank and everything in it again im happy with little bits here and there.
 
nic1 said:
Hi Byron, thanks for the advice.
I was actually thinking that I need to change my lighting  (and hood as the cats have ruined it), but since buying my house all of the funds are at an all time low, but its on my to get list after all the home renovations are complete! 
 
I will look into brightwell aquatics florinmulti, I was actually quite excited by flourish excel but I have since read that many people are dead against using it because of its ability to wipe out fish stock on the first use.... so I might side step that one and get the one you mentioned.
 
I have bought more plants..... guppy grass just to chuck in there as I heard it is extra fast growing, minimized the light by 3 hours, so I guess the next step is to swap over the ferts and change the lighting and hood, I have scrubbed off what I could and cut most of the infected leaves, the BBA looks good in some places though, on the outlet pipe for example, it looks somewhat placed purposely-as long as it doesnt engulf the tank and everything in it again im happy with little bits here and there.
 
You're very welcome.
 
Don't mix up Flourish Excel (which is a liquid carbon supplement) with Flourish Comprehensive Supplement.  The latter is OK, and basically identical to FlorinMulti.  Both are comprehensive nutrient supplements that contain no carbon.  I use Flourish Comp simply because I can get it online by the 2 litre jug which is way less expensive for me with all my tanks.  FlorinMulti is much the same thing.
 
I have brush algae on most of the wood, and I don't worry unless I see it appearing on healthy plant leaves.  It will appear on leaves that are dying, and in fact this is one way I know a particular sword leaf can be removed...by the appearance of brush algae along the margins.
 
Byron.
 
Okay, so I have looked for actual information on the lights I use. The website doesn't show the actual information and I've tossed the box by now. Here's what I do know: it's a NatGeo brand 30inch 3 tube LED set up. Two of the tubes are a very bright white, the other is blue (which I don't use). My lights come on at noon and I think they are off at ten. I'll reduce this to an eight hour period today. The timer can be sort of complicated on this unit (it's a built in timer).

With more water changes and a reduced light period, is there anything else I should do to get this algae from growing in my moss?
 
attibones said:
Okay, so I have looked for actual information on the lights I use. The website doesn't show the actual information and I've tossed the box by now. Here's what I do know: it's a NatGeo brand 30inch 3 tube LED set up. Two of the tubes are a very bright white, the other is blue (which I don't use). My lights come on at noon and I think they are off at ten. I'll reduce this to an eight hour period today. The timer can be sort of complicated on this unit (it's a built in timer).

With more water changes and a reduced light period, is there anything else I should do to get this algae from growing in my moss?
 
I won't comment on that light as I am totally unfamiliar with LED systems (except the one I tried and quickly got rid of as it was not sufficient intensity and way too blue).
 
To your question: Make sure the moss is not in direct light, whether achieved by overshadowing by other plants, wood or floating plants.  Reduce the photoperiod and observe for a couple weeks.  What is already there (meaning algae) won't go away but if additional algae is not observed, you are probably on the mark.
 
Okay cool. We shall see how it goes then.
 

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